Ukraine

LAz · Ukraine

Interesting things are happening over there right now.

Aventinian

Has this suddenly turned into an MI6 mail-drop?

Jimbo

SLG

What's happening in the Ukraine?

LAz

SLG

Cheers for the summary LAz. Bit of a mess then eh! Not seen anything in the press here about the Ukraine for a long time.

LAz

macnumpty

I was watching Russia Today this morning and they're describing the situation as a coup, which is perhaps an over-reaction.

This kind of division of power does happen from time to time: Clinton had to deal with a Republican Congress from 1994 until he left office, just as Bush has to deal with a Democratic Congress now. Also, in France, Gaulist President Chirac had to appoint a Socialist PM (Lionel Jospin) after Parliamentary Elections in 1997.

At first glance, the Ukrainian model seems to resemble the French system, so this could be common in Ukrainian politics if the Constitution stays as it is, and both sides will (eventually) get used to it. To be honest, in light of the divisions that the Orange Revolution exposed (though that perhaps had more to do with the two main candidates' backers), having a pro-Western and a pro-Russian element in the government is probably a good thing - a 'Unity' government to get the country back on track.

But the two sides have to co-operate with each other, and that doesn't appear to be happening right now. Elections would probably be the best thing, if only to let voters settle the argument.

That said, the worst-case scenario would probably be if Julia Tymoshenko's bloc commanded enough support for her to be PM. She's pro-Western, like Yushchenko, but the two are not exactly the best of pals and there'd be just as many rows, only based on personality rather than principle (Didn't Yushchenko fire Tymoshenko once before?). So you'd have the same divisions, and the large pro-Russian, pro-Yanukovich strand of Ukrainian society would be kept out of the loop. In those circumstances, everyone would be a loser.

elidir

hello Laz,
Concerning yushchenko's money: I think that he received (perhaps not knowingly but certainly embarrasingly) substantial donations from a certain russian fraudster . i can't remember his name, but he made his billions, as did many who the west fret about when they are imprisoned, from financial fraud after the soviet collapse in an investment scam that cost many people their savings.

I beleive I'm right in saying that he is a wanted man by russian authorities and police and by interpol but -would you beleive- now resident in england he is allowed to live in freedom surrounded by ex legionaire bodyguards. It's a murky bussiness with western goverments interested in the weakening of russian national interests and influence since they elected a man who actually wants russia's economy to be under Russian control and resists the interests of western bussines and the world bank. I'm not surprised that Putin is nationalising oil and gas in Russia to bring it and its wealth under state control considering the number of made it quick expat billionaires russia has suffered recently under their alchoholic and pliable former president .

Like yourself news of Ukraine is not covered by the press here much since the "orange revolution" Interestingly now Russia has enormous influence in Europe because of gas.

Neil

The "orange revolution" was clearly a western financed & organised takeover - one of a line after Yugoslavia & Georgia.

The failure of the Ukrainians to vote our way first time & the pressure to get them a second chance got enormous, if inacccurate, coverage by our press.

It makes perfect sense that our media would not make a chirp about the way the wheels have come off the orange waggon.

agentmancuso

Some informed comment on the situation in Ukraine from Cicero

LAz

RFM

You are certainly correct Laz;
To recount a bit of history; it was the current regime under a thug by the name of Schberbitskiy, a local KGB hood as well as president, that supported the coup de tat against Gorbechev. When it was clear that the coup had failed, the Uke regime suddenly announced independence and asked for support from the West, read USA. America of course decided they rather liked the whole idea of being able to irritate Russia, so of course they supported their new allies, never mind who they were or how they got there. Next came Kuchma, a man who was implicated in the murder of a journalist who dared criticize his regime. No problemo said America, we support independence movements even if we have to hold our nose. Kuchma decided not to become president for life, but did insist that the Supreme Council, the legislature, grant life-long immunity for his trespasses as a condition of retirement. And finally came Yuschenko, the man who was poisoned with a poison that does not kill, it only pisses the victim off every time he has to look at himself in a mirror and brother Yanukovic, long time legislator from the Eastern Ukraine. And who the hell is Julia Timoschenko?? For starters she was Yuschenko's friend and buddy when he served his first term, but she had to resign when questions were raised in the international banking community about money laundering. There is still an InterPol warrant out for her at last reports. Who is her political base? Nobody knows the answer to that one except Yuschenko and his position is that he does not have to answer questions, least of all to the people who elected him. And Cicero says they have a government? Give me break! Where does Cicero get his information from, the dark side of the moon? From Donald Rumsfeld?
Back when the USSR was running things, the journalists used to say the Ukraine was like the Congo, with atomic missles. Now they don't even have the missles. They have a currency that no other country in the world accepts; and they have foreign investment? Ask some of the Western Ukrainians who went over and invested their money when "independence" happened. In a country where you pay in US dollars if you want to buy a automobile? No I don't think so.
The sad legacy of the Ukraine is that historically it has always tried to play one country against another and has lost every time. It was only under the Russian Empire and then under the Soviets, that life was decent and worthwhile. They need to reread their own history.