Welsh aren't True Celts claims Englishman

sandmountainslim · Welsh aren't True Celts claims Englishman

Absolute nonsense! Now the English have decided to eradicate Celtic
culture in a new way, by claiming it isn't real.
Deo Vindice
WP

Welsh aren't True Celts claims Englishman

Feb 18 2006

Catrin Pascoe, Western Mail

THE MODERN nations that consider themselves to be Celtic are not
actually anything to do with the "true Celts" who once dominated Iron
Age Europe, according to anthropological research.

The Welsh, Irish and other peoples who regard themselves as Celtic
cousins are in fact ancient Bretons who include the original English
peoples.

Being Celtic is not about blood, tribes and red hair; nor is it about
loving folk music and believing in the little people.

In a landmark special to be broadcast tonight, anthropologist Richard
Rudgley, who comes from London, aims to separate myth from fact as he
reveals the Celtic world.

Chris Malone, producer for Granada TV, joined him on the journey
tracing the Celtic tradition across the world and said that it
actually originated with the "true Celts" of central Europe.

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Mr Malone said, "It is assumed that the Celts are the people who speak
a 'Celtic' language like the Scots and Welsh.

"These are the peoples who were pushed to the fringes after the Roman
invasion. People also think about the Celtic crosses, and about the
whole pagan druid thing.

"But those are all the cliches. When the Romans arrived in Britain,
they never described the people as Celts.

"The 'true Celts' were the continental Celts, although they spread
across Europe."

He said that Victorian experts made a big mistake in assuming that
what we now call the modern Celtic languages were actually from those
European Celts.

Patrick Sims-Williams of the University of Wales, Aberystwyth,
contributes to the film, demonstrating that ancient Welsh was in
Britain before these European Celts arrived.

Neither is there much evidence of migration, according to DNA research
from Trinity College in Dublin.

Mr Malone said, "So the word 'Celt' as we understand it only actually
started being used in that way in the 18th century, and it has taken
on different meanings.

"What we think of as being Celtic is not necessarily the same as those
original Celts.

"It has all been reinvented. It is a name for the tribes which were
originally here in Britain and Ireland and their coming together has
created this myth.

"And in that happening, the English have lost some sense of their
individual identity."

He said Iron Age communi-ties like Castell Henllys, visited during the
programme, were similar to Celtic settlements in Europe of the same
period, but there were key differences.

"Mostly, the similarities are merely copied designs, sometimes copied
burial rites."

However the Celtic concept is still important, according to the
programme makers.

In reaching his conclusion, Mr Rudgley meets druids, sails in Celtic
ships, rides Celtic chariots, and fights with Celtic weapons as he
uncovers remarkable archaeological evidence that sheds a whole new
light on the European culture.

He contends that, far from being marginal to who we are today, the
Celtic tradition is a crucial part of what makes Britain.

Mr Rudgley argues that the Celtic tradition is a golden thread that
has been intertwined with the heart of Europe for thousands of years;
a Celtic "magic" that is still there for the taking, offering us a
basis for a new Europe.

And the significant fact is that the Welsh language and related
dialects spoken in places like Cornwall and Brittany preceded the
arrival of both Roman and Celtic peoples.

"It is a much older language than that, which gives us some sort of
common root and a much more ancient connection," added Mr Malone.

"That precedes the Celts so it is far older than we might assume."
http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0200wales/tm_objectid=
16718020&method=full&siteid=50082&headline=englishman-says-welsh-aren-
t--true--celts---we-could-be-older-than-that-name_page.ht

SLG

I saw most of that program. Switched it off before it finished though. IMO, not even worth spending the time criticising it.

Aventinian

Ah, but can the fellow who opened this thread actually challenge any of the views expressed here, or is he merely demonstrating outrage that someone dares challenge something that he bases his political beliefs upon...

Because unless you can say something sensible, I will be assuming that the old twisting history to garner support trick is being attempted...

Not that I'm saying I agree with the programme, merely that I would be inclined to believe a qualified historian over an outraged Scots Notionalist.

azzuri

Who cares - whether I descend from a nation of Celts/Picts or even aliens that landed from mars it doesn't bother me. It doesn't really matter to me where Scotland or Scots came from, only where we are going and what we can acheive in the future.

Historians disagree about things all the time - just because one guy says something doesn't make it true, but if he has given valid reasons for his findings then it certainly doesn't make it false either.

SLG

I know Unionists who had major problems with the program. I'm not familiar with the presenter, so I'm not able to say how respectable he is. I don't think getting on the BBC is enough to guarantee he is beyond question.

The original article was from a Welsh paper, so not a Scots nationalist point of view.

The program did start with some merit, describing the lack of archeological evidence for a Celtic invasion from the continent. This is entirely the case. That does not justify his hypothesis that we are all 'British'. British before the Celts rose in Europe and British ever after. I don't know anyone who thinks of the Celts in a ethnic or racial manner. It is a cultural classification referring to various practices, culture and language. It appeared to me that he set up a straw man with which to build his opinion and once he had progressed his opinion to the point he was happy with (i.e. no ethnic Celts came to Britain and we are all ethnically British) he then stopped.

Aventinian

I believe most people would consider 'Celtic' to have some racial basis.

At this point I'm wishing I actually caught the programme, it certainly sounds interesting...

Wolf of Badenoch

SLG

Maybe you're right re some folk thinking of Celtic being some sort of ethnic classification and that there is some merit in demystifying that. I would still think that most folk understand it as a cultural and linguistic classification though. Most of what I have read on the matter uses the term in that way. What I really object to is his sweeping conclusion that if the Celts of Britain were not ethnic Celts who emigrated from mainland Europe, then that makes the people ethnically British.

Like so many BBC documentaries, the presenter takes a very complex issue and simplifies it to the extent that it renders the program useless. In debunking one myth he creates another.