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Dave Coull
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Why History Is Not BanterKing Billy rode into the Battle of the Boyne with the blessing of the Pope. In fact, the Pope even loaned King Billy some troops for the battle, and the orangemen went into battle to the merry tune of a flute band provided by the Pope. And, of course, they went into battle wearing GREEN.
All of which is more or less true. The Pope did indeed back King Billy (because his enemy the King of France backed King James) and, when news of victory at the Boyne reached Rome, a thanksgiving mass was sung in the Vatican. And the Pope did indeed loan King Billy the musical services of a band from his own personal guards, who carried a banner which had been personally blessed by the Pope. As for wearing green, "friendly fire" was a problem back then, just as it has been more recently in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. Both armies at the Boyne had plenty of Redcoats, and both armies also had some men wearing blue coats. Both armies included mercenaries/volunteers from quite a few countries. So, how could you tell who was friend, and who was foe? King Billy's solution was that he issued an order that all of his troops were to wear something GREEN on the day. So, if you saw somebody wearing green, you would know he was an orangeman.
Strangely enough, none of the brightly coloured banners carried by the Loyal Orange Lodge depict the flute band loaned by the Pope, and for some odd reason none of them depict the orangemen as wearing green. Mind you, you won't find such fascinating details being emphasised by the Catholic Church, or by Irish Nationalists, nowadays, either.
And I know from personal experience that mentioning such fascinating historical details at the wrong time, in the wrong place, can get you beaten up by gangs of both Rangers supporters and Celtic supporters.
There is a thin line between "friendly banter" and "not-so-friendly banter". That thin line will be drawn in different places by different people, and you can easily cross it without even realising that you have done so.
"Friendly banter" can really only happen, over anything more than the very briefest periods of time, amongst people who know each other rather well, and share many basic assumptions.
History cannot be properly discussed as "banter". To take just one example (out of countless thousands of possible examples) suppose that one present day person thinks Mary Queen of Scots was a saint. And suppose somebody else of the present day considers that, When The Saints Go Marching In, that true Christian, John Knox, will be in that number. Now, we know that these two historical figures were contemporaries, or, at least, to put it more accurately, that their lives overlapped. We also know they didn't think much of each other. Now, theoretically, BOTH of them could be amongst the saints. But let's assume that this possibility hasn't even occurred to our present day couple. Is it possible for folk with such different assumptions to discuss history on the basis of "banter" without one, or the other, or both, getting offended? Probably not.
"Friendly banter" can really only happen amongst people who know each other rather well and share many basic assumptions, and an unquestioned belief in basic assumptions is precisely what the study of history is NOT about. Of course there may be elements of "banter" in discussion of history, of course there can be remarks that are light-hearted, or none-too-serious. But, basically, history is too important to be reduced entirely to the level of "banter".
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William_Cleland
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What tends to be remembered instead of the wearing of green is the phrase, "Lile ba léir é, ba linn an lá", from a song that was sung by King William's army, which in modern times provides the tune of Lillibullero, the BBC World Service call sign. The orange lily, therefore, tends to be the symbol of the victory at the Boyne.
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Rinty
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I think the dominant symbol of the boyne is the picture of William on his white horse. I dont see a whole lot of orange lily's or much of the culture during the annual commemorations being centred on the lily, more on the king, his horse and of course, the modern parades.
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William_Cleland
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If I say to-may-to you say to-mah-toe.
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Rinty
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then lets call the whole thing off 
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Dave Coull
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| William_Cleland wrote: | | If I say to-may-to you say to-mah-toe. |
My wife really does say to-may-to. She also says sidewalk (not pavement) elevator (not lift) tells me I am talking garbage (but not rubbish) and so far we have managed ten years without calling the whole thing off.
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Rinty
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Well done Dave, although I bet the 'fanny' confusion is not so easily resolved
This week, my wee wife and I celebrate our 21st wedding anniversary. In Cumnock, for our generation, I think it's a record
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Dave Coull
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| Rinty wrote: | | Well done Dave, although I bet the 'fanny' confusion is not so easily resolved |
Oh there's plenty of other areas of confusion. For instance, my extremely attractive older step-daughter thinks it no big deal to ask a young man "Can I have a ride?"
Over there, it just means "will you give me a lift into town in your car". Here, the guy concerned might suddenly feel his heart beating a bit faster.
| Rinty wrote: | | This week, my wee wife and I celebrate our 21st wedding anniversary. In Cumnock, for our generation, I think it's a record |
Well congratulations on your record for Cumnock for your generation! So far as the missus and me are concerned, I think a relationship still going very strong after ten years is a personal best for both of us........
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