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parkhead_rfb · Getting on a bit! Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974

the problem isnt really recognised though, the mainstream media tend to use the old both sides are as bad as each other debate when evidence would show, in my opinion anyway, that this isnt the case. im not saying that we are violently oppressed day in day out, but the level of anti irish discrimination which does exist needs to be recognised and tackled.

azzuri · 'Our Scotland' Fossil Joined: 12 Sep 2005 Posts: 3792

I'm not having a go here but where exactly - it's the same on both bloody sides.

All you hear about from the other side is that it's the Labour-run Councils of glasgow which are run by Irish Immigrants who go to parkhead on a saturday that help all the 'f***ans' get a' the top jobs!
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azzuri · 'Our Scotland' Fossil Joined: 12 Sep 2005 Posts: 3792

s**t sorry - off-topic again.

this is a bit of a grey area though.
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parkhead_rfb · Getting on a bit! Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974

celtic fans have been murdered for wearing celtic tops, with the perception being that they were fenians and therefore fair game.

Catholics as a whole in scotland also have to suffer numerous orange order marches year in year out. catholics are barred from the monarchy in scotland, this may seem superficial but it is an example of institutionalised bias.

Catholic schools are seen as creating the sectarian problem rather than being a resonse to it.

Glasgow has to be the only city in the world with a significant history of irish immigration where a st patricks day parade cannot be celebrated without coming under attack.

these are just a few points, its getting late Laughing

SLG · Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 11:55 pm Post subject:

parkhead_rfb · Getting on a bit! Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974

my point is though that it is only celtic fans who appear to have suffered the loss of life through supporting their club, if you can tell me oterwise then it would disprove my theory that there is a significant discourse here.

i did say catholics as a whole, meaning italian catholics etc.

i have also seen evidence recently that irish catholics and their descendants are still over represented in terms of numbers in jail, unemployment and in terms of ill health. A prominent figure from queens university, whos name escapes me now, also did a talk on this topic in scotland and he was of the opinion that discrimination continues to this day. yes it may not be as bad as it once was but as long as it exists it is unacceptable.

SLG · Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 10:57 am Post subject:

Any form of discrimination is unacceptable. I'd be interested in seeing those stats if you can find them.

azzuri · 'Our Scotland' Fossil Joined: 12 Sep 2005 Posts: 3792

In terms of jail, unemployment and in terms of ill health -

My Irish nationalist lecturer at dundee uni believes that this is not down to discrimination against catholics - but down to the actual catholic church.

It has been shown that since the decline in popularity of the Catholic church in ROI in the early 90s (due to the priest scandals) and the general decline in the 'hold' that the catholic church has over people's lives and state affairs - that a lot of people feel that they have no direction in their lives since the church does not guide them in the way it used to. This is especially prevalent amongst young men. It has been cited as the main reason for increased rates of suicide, ill mental health, alcoholism, crime and drug use in the ROI.

This may give some explanation as to why the rate of the above in Scotland is higher amongst catholics. I'm sure this figure will decline over the next couple of decades however.
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"Every single person on this planet is unique. Just like everyone else..." - Random Guy in Edinburgh Pub

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Rinty · Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 5:43 am Post subject: wrong

Your lecturer is clearly wrong, and it is also wrong to put the blame for those figures on bigotry directly.

The places where the highest occurences happen (glasgow), also have the lowest attendance of church by those who are considered catholic, so the priest has very little influence. I also believe that this sort of opinion DOES stem from the rabid anti- Irish and anti- Catholic sentiments that were widespread in Scotland before WW2. We see the same stuff being levelled at muslims at the moment ("they cant think for themselves - the church is all pervasive in their lives").

These figures are clearly linked to socio-economic factors, the reason this applies higher to the catholic community in general is due to the high Irish-catholic populations in poorer areas of Glasgow and other cities. Why these ghettoes exist is another subject but could be blamed on the scots attitude to the Irish, but it is a general trend in immigrant populations.

Outside of the cities though, this will not apply. I am sure of you took the figures from my home county of Ayrshire, catholics would not have different figures from others re jail, crime, life expectancy etc.

Ayrshire has as much bigottry, orageism as the rest and has its fair share of catholic schools.

BTW, I object to this thread being moved. I made the original post and I believed that the thread WAS about bigotry and sectarianism and that football cannot be separated from these issues easily. Neil Lennon is one subject where the lines clearly cross and I do not see any reason to move this thread.

In general, I consider threads to be interesting when they DO evolve down different lines and think moving posts in general to be a bit pointless.

azzuri · 'Our Scotland' Fossil Joined: 12 Sep 2005 Posts: 3792

well if thats what you believed the post was about - you posted it in the wrong place originally!

suppose everybody has their opinions on the catholic scenario - lets just leave it at that - looks like we'll never agree.
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"Every single person on this planet is unique. Just like everyone else..." - Random Guy in Edinburgh Pub

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parkhead_rfb · Getting on a bit! Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974

slg i found it whilst searching through journals in the university, i will have a look and see if i can locate it again as i didnt take notes of it as i changed my dissetation topic.
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SLG · Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 7:25 pm Post subject:

Rinty · Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 9:12 pm Post subject: agree

azzuri · 'Our Scotland' Fossil Joined: 12 Sep 2005 Posts: 3792

fair enough.

I made a decision at the time and unfortunately I can't 'unmake' the decision. the threads split for good - no point in going on about it. if you want to further discuss the topic - please do it here. In future if it's a 'grey area' such as this one contact me and let me know why you've posted in in that particular section.

and for the record - lennon is still a wee c**t. Smile

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"Every single person on this planet is unique. Just like everyone else..." - Random Guy in Edinburgh Pub

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andreimack · Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 10:41 am Post subject: ...

Having read and re-read this thread i find the hipocrasy stunning.Is it to be believed that only catholic celtic supporters are subjected to violence and sectarianism in scotland? No rangers supporters have ever been subjected to violence or sectarian comments?? What i find most stunning however, is that the major protagonist has a posting name of Parkhead_rfb, and the comment one strike!!! PARKHEAD REPUBLICAN FLUTEBAND AND THE HUNGERSTRIKE ON HIS POSTING NAME!!!!! Well i must say you should be applauded for your non sectarian point of view!! it's nice to see that you are not at all affected by bigotry, and have such an objective point of view.Dickheads like you are the reason bigotry will never end, as there is always going to be another clown like yourself, on the other side of the religious divide, who will never see eye to eye because you are both poisened in the head and do not have the brains or abillity to see an objective point,your psyche is to tainted by bigotry to even make a reasonable arguementand before you even try take another look at your posting name and tell me you are not a biggoted idiot.
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RBK · Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 12:05 pm Post subject:

It happens on both sides. I have said that before on this site. For every tale that parkhead comes out with,another one could be produced to mirror that.

Republicans/Roman Catholics whatever you like to call them have not a monoply on suffering.

This happened in Belfast last weekend. The guy was a young Protestant,out with Catholic friends. One positive point two people helped him, whom I would suppose were Catholics ---

23 October 2005
THIS is the Protestant teenager who was left for DEAD when he was abandoned in a republican stronghold - by HIS OWN taxi driver.
Stephen Donaghy, from Blacks Road, in west Belfast, suffered serious injuries, after he and a pal were set upon by a 30-strong mob on the Andersonstown Road, early yesterday.
Although his friend managed to escape, Stephen was knocked unconscious, after he was repeatedly kicked and punched on the head.
The thugs also hurled full beercans at the two pals.
Said Stephen: "I can't believe this has happened to me.
"I had just dropped off two Catholic friends of mine, and thought I was on my way home.
"I knew something was funny when the taxi driver asked where we were from, and then made excuses about having to meet his brother for something.
"The next thing, he stopped the car outside a chippy, grabbed a baseball bat, opened the door and started calling us Orange b******s. He knew the crowd were waiting for us, and we had no other option but to get out of the car. The next thing I remember is the punches and kicks flying in on my head.
"I am still in a daze about the whole thing."
Stephen was sharing a taxi with three friends before two were dropped off on the Glen Road.
But, when he was on his way home, the taxi driver started quizzing him, before suddenly stopping in the hardline republican area.
Stephen was rescued by two passersby and was rushed to the Royal Victoria Hospital, where his condition was last night described as "stable".
He is now waiting to see a specialist over fears that his right eye may be permanently damaged.
But, he believes that he is very lucky to be alive.
Added Stephen: "I tried to get away, but they kept kicking and punching me.
"The next thing I remember is waking up, and these two fellas helping me - I probably owe them my life.
"I can't see out my of my right eye and I just hope I won't be blinded by the attack.
"The mob were like animals - they were determined to kill us.
"I've no doubt the taxi driver knew that, by dropping us off, we could have ended up being killed. I have no interest in religion and was just out to enjoy myself.
"I have never been in a situation like this before, and it is one I never want to experience again."
The taxi driver was believed to be driving a red-coloured car, and police at Woodbourne have appealed for information.
Said a spokesman: "Police at Woodbourne did move a crowd on in the Andersonstown Road area on Saturday morning, and would appeal for anyone with information on this attack to come forward.

trueblue · Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 6:27 pm Post subject:

parkhead_rfb · Getting on a bit! Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974

this site really is superb Laughing

to the first guy when you can tell me what is sectarian about having the name parkhead_rfb? we are open to everyone regardless of religion race ethnicity etc, my band is for the promotion of an united Ireland. Also the first strike is there because of a warning i was given maybe you should have thought of that before opening your mouth Wink

also its ironic that someone who says that i cant have a reasoned argument resorts to name calling at the first attempt. you should read up on the actual basis of republicanism you will find that many repiublican heroes have in fact been protestant shock horror!

As for true blue i think you will find that roman catholics also pay council tax which pays for those local services you mention therefore they have a right to use them, try to come up with some sensible arguments at least eh. As for the catholic education systems, which is also funded by council tax, which roman catholics pay, are also common place in England and other nations through the world why is it only in Scotland that they attract such criticisms.

also where have you got your figures for north lanarkshire council? i dont believe council members are made to say what religion they are or are you just assuming this to be the case. i can also assure you that north lanarkshire council have been thee most difficult council in scotland to deal with then applying for republican demonstrations.

As for aiden mcgeady being a turncoat who are you to tell anyone to what nation they should feel more culturally alligned? do you make up the rules as to how a person should define there ethnicity. many sociologists who have studied this particular topic, im pretty sure more than you have, have came to the conclusin that nationality is far more than about your place of birth and indeed british citizenship laws recognise this. im also pretty sure mcgeady pays far more tax than yourself in thic country so by your reasoining he is more entitlesd to use its amenities is that correct?
_________________
"our revenge will be the laughter of our children" bobby sands MP

"there is no equality in a society that stands upon the political and economic bog, if only the strongest make it good or survive" bobby sands MP

RBK · Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 9:27 pm Post subject:

also its ironic that someone who says that i cant have a reasoned argument resorts to name calling at the first attempt. you should read up on the actual basis of republicanism you will find that many repiublican heroes have in fact been protestant shock horror!

No shock horror from me. I know all about them and many of them rued the day,they threw their lot in with the Roman Catholic irish.

trueblue · Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 2:27 pm Post subject: