Our Scotland - www.our-scotland.org

sandmountainslim · Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 2:40 am Post subject: [ScotWatch] Huguenots

Originally posted on the ScotWatch group:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scotwatch

Ever wonder why the modern people of France are so gloriously stupid?
It is because they ran the cream of the crop out of the country over
an extended period of time!
Posted in honour of my ancestors Jacques and Guillaume de Chiel who
were driven out of France and to Edinburgh during the Wars of Religion.
Deo Vindice
WP

Our Ancestors the Huguenots

The Huguenots were French Protestants. Protestantism was introduced
into France during the Reformation, early in the sixteenth century. It
was accepted in France by many members of the nobility, by people
engaged in intellectual pursuits, and by members of the middle class,
particularly those having special competence in the professions,
trades, and handicrafts. The Protestant movement in France was not a
proletarian upheaval or a "liberal" agitation. On the contrary, it was
a solid, conservative movement of notable respectability on the part
of many of the most responsible and most accomplished people in France.

The Huguenot Church grew rapidly. At its first synod in 1559, fifteen
churches were represented. Over two thousand churches sent
representatives to the Huguenot Church synod in 1561.

In the beginning, the new religion was respected, and the Huguenots
were greatly favored by Francis I, because of their standing and
abilities. Later, however, Francis I, for political reasons, turned
against them. Thereafter, they experienced alternately high favor and
outrageous persecution. Clashes between Roman Catholics and Huguenots
occurred repeatedly, and these clashes frequently erupted into open
warfare on a grand scale.

However, it is to be recognized that economic considerations also
influenced Huguenot persecution. The Huguenots were workers. With hard
common sense they realized that they must produce what they consumed.
They would give work to a beggar but never alms. Even Richelieu, the
so-called "Nemesis of the Huguenots," who forbade them to leave
France, said, "They are workers; France needs them."

In a state in which one-sixth of the national income went to a
non-productive church, a church jealous of its paternalistic control
of the people and to a large extent resentful of the government, an
economic attitude such as that of the Huguenots was bound to be less
than popular. Furthermore, severe physical penalties were imposed upon
industrious folk found working on any of the many ecclesiastical holy
days on which all work was forbidden. The Huguenots were therefore
subjected to economic as well as religious oppression.

The names of individual Huguenot leaders -- the Condes, the Colignys,
Henry of Navarre, and others -- are well known to us. It is not
intended here to review them. The purpose of this account is merely to
emphasize the qualities of the Huguenots and the reasons which
impelled them to migrate to other countries.

Some of the highlights of the struggle may, however, be set down:

After the early persecutions and following a retaliatory plot by the
Huguenots, the pacification of Amboise in 1563 again allowed the
Huguenots freedom of worship. However, this freedom soon began to be
whittled away, and further persecutions followed.

The marriage of Catherine de Medici's daughter, Marguerite de Valois,
to Henry of Navarre (who became Henry IV in 1589) on August 18, 1572,
drew most of the Huguenot leaders to Paris for the ceremonies. This
gave the Valois and the Guise factions an opportunity to organize a
deadly act of treachery. On Saint Bartholomew's Day, August 24, as a
special signal bell rang out, soldiers and organized mobs fell upon
the Huguenots, and thousands of them were slaughtered. Admiral Gaspard
de Coligny was among the first to fall, at the hands of a servant of
the Duc de Guise. Pope Gregory XIII even had a medal struck off in
honor of the occasion and sent it to Catherine.

Civil wars followed, and in 1587 Henry of Navarre inflicted a crushing
defeat upon the Roman Catholics. On April 13, 1598, as Henry IV, he
issued the Edict of Nantes which granted to Huguenots toleration and
freedom to worship in their own way.

Although the provisions of the Edict were not strictly or uniformly
followed, yet for a time, at least, there was greater freedom for the
Huguenots.

However, on October 18, 1685, Louis XIV revoked the Edict of Nantes,
and this revocation caused France the loss of a half million persons,
among whom were some of her most skilled artisans.

It was not until November 28, 1787, after the United States of America
had gained its independence from England, that the Edict of Toleration
was issued, guaranteeing religious liberty to all. It has been said
that Lafayette, a Roman Catholic, was greatly impressed by the fact
that so many of the American leaders were of Huguenot ancestry and,
upon returning to France, he urged an Edict of Toleration upon Louis
XVI. However, by the time of the Edict of Toleration, the Huguenot
emigrants, with few exceptions, had raised families and sunk their
roots so deeply in other lands as to prevent their return to France.

During the entire period between the early part of the sixteenth
century and 1787, the conservative, respectable, accomplished
Huguenots left France for other countries in varying numbers with each
recurring wave of persecution. "France had opened her own veins and
spilt her best blood when she drained herself of her Huguenots, and
everywhere, in every country that would receive them, this amazing
strain acted as a yeast." (Esther Forbes: Paul Revere and the World he
Lived In. Boston, Houghton Mifflin Company, 1942.)

Emigration to Other European Countries

The Huguenots who left France during their persecutions quite
naturally emigrated to the Protestant and Eastern Orthodox countries
of Europe. They went particularly to Germany, Holland, and England,
although some went to Switzerland and other Protestant countries. They
were warmly received, and many of them remained to enrich those countries.

Emigration to the American Colonies

Huguenot settlers immigrated into the American colonies directly from
France and indirectly from the Protestant countries of Europe. This
immigration began at an early date -- before the revocation of the
Edict of Nantes in 1685 -- and continued for over one hundred years.
Although the Huguenots settled along almost the entire Eastern coast
of North America, they showed a preference for what are now the states
of Massachusetts, New York, Pennsylvania, Virginia, and South Carolina.

Just as France suffered a notable loss through emigration of the
intelligent, capable Huguenots, so the American colonies gained
through their immigration. The colonists who had already settled North
America were mostly farmers, laborers, ministers, soldiers, sailors,
and people who had been engaged in government. The Huguenots supplied
the colonies with excellent physicians and a large number of expert
artisans and craftsmen. For example, Irenee Dupont learned how to make
gunpowder from the immortal Lavoisier, and Apollos Rivoire, a
goldsmith, was the father of Paul Revere.

Moreover, the Huguenots adapted themselves readily to the New World
and showed an astonishing propensity for marrying people who were not
Huguenots. Their descendants increased rapidly and spread quickly
throughout the American colonies. Today, people of Huguenot origin are
found in all parts of the United States.

_________________
William Potter
ScotWatch International
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scotwatch/
Jefferson Republican Party
http://jeffersonrepublicanparty.com
http://jeffersonrepublican.blogspot.com/

RadgeJougal · Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:47 pm Post subject:

Interesting. I have some Huguenot ancestry.

sandmountainslim · Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:03 pm Post subject:

Perhaps I should have used a less judgmental word than "stupid" in my initial post.
WP
_________________
William Potter
ScotWatch International
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scotwatch/
Jefferson Republican Party
http://jeffersonrepublicanparty.com
http://jeffersonrepublican.blogspot.com/

Morph · Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 12:11 pm Post subject:

I think it is a bit unfair to call the French stupid due to the Huguenots being persecuted by Lious XIV. Also unless these origional Huguenots are still alive i dont see how you can state that genetics would make their desendances the 'cream of the crop' unless you go down the same alley as the Aryan arguement.
_________________
"An oppressive government is to be more feared than a tiger"

One O'Clock Gun · Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 4:31 pm Post subject:

sandmountainslim · Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 6:45 pm Post subject:

One O'Clock Gun · Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 6:25 pm Post subject:

And this is in the Global Politics section and not the History section because......?
_________________
a country with 'democratic' and 'people' in it's title, usually has scant regard for either.

Firefox · Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:24 pm Post subject:

SMS probably felt that French History might be slightly out of place in a section which mainly has Scottish stuff in it. Besides, just because it was two hundred odd years ago, doesn't lessen the political implications of intentionally or inadvertantly vital elements of society in a purge (but now I'm being pedantic).

Besides, I'm sure he can answer himsel'

Personally, I like the french, partly because of writers like Octave Mirbeau and Jean Cocteau and also because they shielded Thomas Muir of Huntershill and quite a few other Scots along the way.

As an aside, a Scottish Hero did leave the British Army fighting against the French in Spain during the Napoleonic Wars,

John Baird served in the 95th Foot and Rifles and served as a Bugler with the 2nd Battalion 95th Regiment of Foot (known as the Rifles) in South America and Spain before leaving the British Army in 1813. He later led Radicals trying to emulate their French Revolutionary Counterparts in the 1820 rising.

He was hanged for Treason and is remembered as a hero.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Baird_%28radical%29
http://www.taghairmdubh.com/radicals.htm

References: John Baird's Military Career - Peter Berresford Ellis; Winter 1996 / Spring 1997 edition of the Scottish Labour History Review.
_________________
"Your denial is beneath you, and thanks to the use of hallucinogenic drugs, I see through you." Bill Hicks

Morph · Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:31 pm Post subject:

as firefox said not all the great french writers, artisans and poets where from the Huguenots. Why was Louis was an idiot why? the Sun King was much respected at his time[/code]
_________________
"An oppressive government is to be more feared than a tiger"

IF Convenor · Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:04 pm Post subject:

Firefox · Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:10 pm Post subject:

Bugger...

IF... Maths was never my strong point. You can't see (since I'm guessing you just looking at a Computer screen) but I'm being really red and embarrassed here...

I've read this stuff for a good while and should've known better PDT_Aliboronz_29

.

In my defence I know Sci-fi trivia and Girl singers from the 1980s better than I known maths. (which is pretty f***ing useless on this board...)
_________________
"Your denial is beneath you, and thanks to the use of hallucinogenic drugs, I see through you." Bill Hicks

IF Convenor · Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:25 pm Post subject:

You know girl singers? Any chance of some introductions?
_________________
The man o independent mind,
He looks and laughs at aa that.

sandmountainslim · Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 1:02 am Post subject:

Firefox is correct that I placed it here as this seemed the most logical place to put French issues no matter their age.
WP
_________________
William Potter
ScotWatch International
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scotwatch/
Jefferson Republican Party
http://jeffersonrepublicanparty.com
http://jeffersonrepublican.blogspot.com/

sandmountainslim · Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 3:05 am Post subject:

Morph · Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 5:24 pm Post subject:

Surely the fact that he lived/reigned for a long time in a time period around Cromwell and such shows that he was not that bad a leader,
_________________
"An oppressive government is to be more feared than a tiger"

Blackadder · 'Our Scotland' Fossil Joined: 28 Jul 2006 Posts: 4297

Most monarchs who live longer than their 20th birthday are already living well past their sell-by dates.

RadgeJougal · Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 6:12 pm Post subject:

Americans, including Southerners seem to have an irrational hatred for the French. I don't get it.

My biggest problem with the French is what they do to the Bretons and Basques etc

Blackadder · 'Our Scotland' Fossil Joined: 28 Jul 2006 Posts: 4297

I don't know though Radge ... maybe you'd look good in a basque???

sandmountainslim · Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 8:55 pm Post subject:

RadgeJougal · Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 5:02 pm Post subject: