Our Scotland - www.our-scotland.org

RFM · Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 8:22 pm Post subject:

Wikepidea, as the initial page tells everbody, is made up of "contributors" that is people who think they have something to say; sadly when that something is politically oriented it is invariably silly and distorted. But if you are unable to discern the difference between dictatorship and democracy, this exchange is silly also.
Rather than tell us that you base your knowledge on what you hear, you might try to read some reports from the international agencies who monitor and report on these matters. It might help you with your "opposition" equals "democracy" ideas.
As to Mr. Sandmountain Slim, they say that America is a sort of a melting pot; the scum rises to the top and the ones on the bottom get burned. You might remember, if you are old enough, during the presidency of Jimmy Carter, precisely that notion, of opening the gates and "allowing the people to vote with their feet" as the neocons put it, was tried. It was the convicted criminals and and lowlifes from Cuban society that took the opportunity to emmigrate to America, the decent folks stayed home. For years after America withdrew the offer, Cuban criminals were still showing up in the American legal system, some still wanted in Cuba. It kind of makes you think about who in fact left. If you look at some of the people President Bush has recently pardoned, it is pretty clear where the decent people are and it isn't in Miami.

agentmancuso · Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 8:40 pm Post subject:

sandmountainslim · Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 8:53 pm Post subject:

RFM · Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 8:57 pm Post subject:

To Niqaryt;
So you say the political opposition in Cuba does not work for the CIA? Let me lay some names on you: Mr. James Cason, US Interests Section, US Embassy, Cuba. Who was watched putting some 4,000 miles on his car in a couple of months after his arrival, meeting "hitchhikers" and "dissidents". These "opposition" dissidents were found to have money, computers and fax machines, in a country where there are no electronics retail suppliers, they were all charged and convicted under the Cuban espionage statute, supporting the interests of a foriegn power to subvert the socialist system. My, my, is this your idea of political opposition as well!
How about the group "Comando F-4", trained and equipted in Miami, of all places, by the Boy Scouts of America, I suppose, who shot and wounded a Cuban citizen right in Havana, as a "spy". Naw, they had nothing to do with the CIA or America! Not a thing! They just like to boast about it though.
Or how about "Grupo de Apoya a la Disidensa" to whom the Congress of the USA has given close to three million dollars, for "political prisoners, families and victims of oppression". Suppose that sort of money, assistance and equiptment was given to IRA soldiers by American embassy officers wandering around Ireland; do you think it would all be a question of internal "opposition" politics. Of course you would!

RFM · Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 9:15 pm Post subject:

To agentmancuso;
It simply eludes me why you think everthing has to be a matter of belief; personally I prefer facts. The Article,"Cuba After the Revolution" is a rather abrupt departure from the preceeding articles; it is all opinion without citation to fact. For instance the opening sentence declares Castro was prime minister, carefully not stating he was so elected in a general election, nor does it mention that there was a President, Dr. Iturro, to whom the prime minister was responsible. Worded as it is, it creates the impression that political power depends on the man with the gun. The article goes on to talk about "influences" as though only one man were running the country, when it should be reasonably clear that running Cuba is a task that would not only require willing cooperation, but also the assistance of talented professionals and technicians. Since Cuba has prevailed in spite of the American embargo for the past 40 years, clearly the Cuban people work to support their country and government.

parkhead_rfb · Getting on a bit! Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974

RFM · Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 9:26 pm Post subject:

To Babygael;
Thank-you Dear!

RFM · Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 9:28 pm Post subject:

To parkhead_rfb:
Excuse me?

sandmountainslim · Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 9:44 pm Post subject:

RFM,
I don't know what the Cuban Regime is paying you to be a Dollar Store Spokesman for them but if it is tobacco products may I ask you to send some my way?
WP
_________________
William Potter
ScotWatch International
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scotwatch/
Jefferson Republican Party
http://jeffersonrepublicanparty.com
http://jeffersonrepublican.blogspot.com/

RFM · Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 9:58 pm Post subject:

Nothing to my knowledge;but one thing I have always admired about the Scots is their insistance on fair play.

Avatar · Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 10:20 pm Post subject:

RFM · Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:56 am Post subject:

Oh! Sorry about that. Thank-you Avatar!

agentmancuso · Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 8:33 pm Post subject:

agentmancuso · Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 8:35 pm Post subject:

agentmancuso · Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 8:49 pm Post subject:

RFM · Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 9:18 pm Post subject:

You see agentmancuso, we differ on a very fundamental, but elementary point. To you the government of Cuba is Fidel Castro; the overwhelming evidence is that he is an elected official, in elections which have been internationally observed, are not rigged or staged, and whether that sticks in your throat or not he is the Cuban people's choice. As I pointed out to you, although you seem determined not to understand, running Cuba requires much hard work and the participation of professionals, technicians and people. They are able to do that despite an illegal and unlawful embargo which has done nothing to change that except make life much more difficult for Cubans.
In 1976, the Cuban people adopted a new constitution, wherein they decided their form of government would be socialist, that they were under constant attack by agents of the United States claiming political freedom but seeking to reverse the gains of the revolution and impose the old world order of Batista and American organized crime. The solution they adopted, which makes eminent sense to me, was a system of government which curtailed certain rights and freedoms that many other countries not in their predicament often enjoy, but also curtail in times of national threat. Look no further that America's war on terror and England's methods in Ireland for examples. Is it deplorable that governments do these things, certainly; is it necessary, apparently so.
I suspect however that most people are content to swallow American anti-Castro propaganda wholesale making no effort to understand how Cuban government really works, and conclude Castro is Cuban government. Your remarks lead me to the understanding you are one of these. Yet you would probably object to my characterizing the devolved government of Scotland as Jack McConnell, the government of England as Tony Blair or the government of America as George W.Bush as simple minded and shallow.
Now if you are prepared to point out some particular personal act of Fidel Castro which you deem to be the unlawful and unbounded act of a dictator, I wish you would get to it; otherwise please stop with this nonsense of trying to characterize government as the personal conduct of one man.
Parentheticallly, if you think the Cuban people support or encourage the efforts of these "crooks and thugs" that would certainly come as quite a shock to them. Killing, terrorizing people and destroying property leads quickly to an understanding as to what it is the"liberators" have in mind for you when they gain control.