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azzuri · 'Our Scotland' Fossil Joined: 12 Sep 2005 Posts: 3792

I know people might see this as off-topic within this forum - but bear with me on this one.

What do folk think the effect of the introduction of Sinn Fein to Scotland as a political force be? I know you might think that they are not interested in Scotland - but given they support the independence movement here and have many supporters in Scotland of Irish descent who wish to see a united Ireland - would this be a positive thing for the Scottish Independence Movement?

Given they talk of some sort of 'Celtic-Alliance' between Scotland and Ireland - surely it would help them reach their goals quicker as an Independent Scotland would surely mean a speedier break-up of the UK as a whole.

The guaranteed support they'd get in certain parts would mean quite a few list MSPs at worst and would make the political climate in the West of Scotland interesting again. You'd get many who support and vote for Labour in Glasgow make a sharp about turn and start voting for these guys instead. This would not only take seats away from Labour - but give seats to pro-independence candidates instead. Surely this can only be beneficial to the Scottish Independence Movement?

They would also be able to convince their voters in a way that the SNP has never been able to that an Independent Scotland is the way to go. They could do this by emphasising how much of the break-up of the UK could help their overall aims and also promote the idea of a Celtic Alliance with Ireland - forging stronger links with both Eire and Northern Ireland.

This would surely create the conditions in Scotland for a much larger % of the population wishing for Independence than at present. Would this be opportunist politics by playing with community feeling in the West of Scotland, or would it be a way for them to just further their cause and promote their beliefs?

Discuss. Wink

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Maol.Chaluim · Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 2:36 am Post subject:

Sinn Fein has as much relevance to Scottish politics as the SNP has to Irish politics. The best way both parties can advance their respective causes is by arguing their cases in their respective countries.

I can't see how a Sinn Fein presence in Scotland (and I think they'd be lucky with one list seat) would contribute positively to the Scottish independence movement, given their sectarian and paramilitary asociations.

azzuri · 'Our Scotland' Fossil Joined: 12 Sep 2005 Posts: 3792

I know what you mean - I just think it'd be interesting to see how it affected the Labour vote in Central Scotland.

For instance: Would there be plenty of other Labour voters who in turn decide to vote tory as a result of sinn fein entrering the elections, therefore taking even more votes and seats off the Labour party and giving them to a party who currently seems to be flirting with Independence as an idea?
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"Every single person on this planet is unique. Just like everyone else..." - Random Guy in Edinburgh Pub

Possibly the funniest site in the world, 'The Daily Mash' - http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/

SLG · Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 9:17 am Post subject:

Is it not Republican Sinn Fein that is looking at standing in the west central belt? I'm sure they recently released a document outlining their support for Scottish independence and the strengthening of links between Scotland and Ireland.

I have no idea whether there would be any support for SF or RSF though I'd imagine the kind of person who would vote for RSF is someone that either wouldn't presently vote, or if so would be more likely to vote for the SSP or one of the other leftist parties rather than Labour.

Niall · Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 11:20 am Post subject:

A Chairadean mhath.
Sinn Fienn in the eyes of most Scots is inextricably linked with violence and terrorism. In that they are correct. Such a link would be disastrous for our movement for Independence. Our attitude to SF should be 'Thanks but no thanks. Keep your nose out of Scottish affairs.' The same applies to the Ulster Loyalists whose banners can be seen at football matches, their prescence is just as unwelcome.
'S Mise
Niall.
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Cha deanar duine glic ach air a chosd fheinn.

trueblue · Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 1:13 pm Post subject: Re: Sinn Fein

Maol.Chaluim · Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 1:52 pm Post subject: Re: Sinn Fein

I've never encountered any "hatred" of the Scots while in Ireland or by any Irish people. Quite the contrary, in fact.

azzuri · 'Our Scotland' Fossil Joined: 12 Sep 2005 Posts: 3792

No I've actually heard about the Hitler thing -

but lets face it - it's completely irrelevant nowadays. You can't tarnish all Irish people with the decisions of those 60 years ago!
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"Every single person on this planet is unique. Just like everyone else..." - Random Guy in Edinburgh Pub

Possibly the funniest site in the world, 'The Daily Mash' - http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/

Maol.Chaluim · Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 2:17 pm Post subject:

I didn't mean to suggest that I didn't believe what trueblue said. However, I think the Irish would agree that that was a mistake. I hope so.

I wonder if trueblue never asociates with Germans, or the Japanese, for example.

parkhead_rfb · Getting on a bit! Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974

psf are an all ireland party and would never stand in scotland, similarly with rsf who are even more conservatively nationalist than psf. i also object to the terms sectarian once again it is very easy to band these terms about but i challenge those who use it against republicanism to actually come up with facts tho prove that psf are a sectarian party.

in response to ireland supprting the nazis i think you will find that ireland was neutral during the second world war, perhaps they shoudl have been fighting the nazis but given the circumstances of the time i can understand if not agree with there stance.

in reference to republicans in ireland though you will find that they were very prominent in the international brigades which went to fight against fascism in spain during the civil war.
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trueblue · Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 6:11 pm Post subject:

trueblue · Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 6:15 pm Post subject: Re: Sinn Fein

Maol.Chaluim · Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 6:22 pm Post subject:

So one barman from a "shady" bar in Dublin, and another in New York are sufficient grounds for you to allege that the Irish hate the Scots? I've been in bars in the centre of Belfast and and the city with two names, before any of the ceasefires, and had no trouble at all.

trueblue · Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 6:32 pm Post subject:

i never said all irish but it is evident that many hate the scots. a good example is of how the dublin loyal rsc is treated. many simple irish hate the scots cos they are british.
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azzuri · 'Our Scotland' Fossil Joined: 12 Sep 2005 Posts: 3792

Just in the same way that I'm sure the odd Scot hate the Irish for no legitimate reason.

You cannot generalise or give a stereotype to a nationality - that is bordering on racism.
_________________
"Every single person on this planet is unique. Just like everyone else..." - Random Guy in Edinburgh Pub

Possibly the funniest site in the world, 'The Daily Mash' - http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/

parkhead_rfb · Getting on a bit! Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974

total and utter nonsense i have been in ireland at least once a year for about six years and never once had a problem being from scotland or glasgow, and thats all over the island.

and its not just the odd scot that hates the irish Wink

_________________
"our revenge will be the laughter of our children" bobby sands MP

"there is no equality in a society that stands upon the political and economic bog, if only the strongest make it good or survive" bobby sands MP

SLG · Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 7:31 pm Post subject:

It is also the case that there are lots of Scots who hate the British.

Abieuan · Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 9:26 pm Post subject:

trueblue · Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 1:43 pm Post subject:

only telling you what happened, they were just obnoxious unpleasent gits. of course irish people hate scots and vice versa in some instances, naive to say otherwise.
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RBK · Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 1:52 pm Post subject:

It amuses me how sinn fein support the break-up of the island of Britain and support Scottish independence. Yet on this island they play the English role and say the island should be one unit.

Many irish did support the nazis. De Valera delivered a letter of condolence to the German embassy on hearing of Hitler's death. Sean Russell was also heavily involved with bringing German forces to Ireland.
I think they have a statue of him in Dublin.

When Ulster was suffering the heaviest air -raids outside of London. The R.O.I. was having an easy time of it. Some folk would tell you that they left their lights on purposely in order to guide Hitlers bombers to Ulster.

Although I have to say that on one occassion at least, they allowed fire tenders to travel to Ulster to help out.