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trueblue
3 Strikes - Banned!
Joined: 31 Oct 2005
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Location: caravan
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 Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 9:43 am Post subject: Re: n |
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| Rinty wrote: | | Quote: | | is their anything wrong with someone of unionist parentage to be proud of their background |
No, I am very proud of my family roots, the scots and the Irish including the unionists who are very much in the majority in my history.
So you agree their is nothing wrong with people with Irish parentage being proud of their Irish roots? This is different from your earlier view that people should be booed because of it.
As you say the idea of Neil lennon saying those words is well documented - AT IBROX. The one main piece of evidence which makes it almost certain that Lennon has no sympathies with bigotry is the fact theat he captained Northern Ireland. Those from republican backgrounds or who are bigotted (not the same thing) would have rejected a cap from NI (a country they don't recognise) and played with the republic instead as they are allowed to.
He played for and captained his country proudly until the same sort of people who booed McGeady forced him out of the team.
You have NO evidence of McGeady being a republican and offer no reason as to why someone who is republican should be booed at Scottish football grounds.
You are typical of the people who boo McGeady and Lennon and this thread has quite concisely explained your reasons for doing so - pure bigotry. |
i never said someone should be booed because of irish parentage, they should be booed for being a turncoat bastrad.
'the idea'!! that neil lennon was shouting 'dirty orange bastrdsa' at ibrox is fact.as is the scarve spitting. he is the lurgan bigot for that reason alone.
tell me, if barry ferguson was seen and heard shouting 'dirty papist bastards' at celtic fans and spitting on sellik scarves what would you say?
there is no reaon to boo someone ata football ground as they are republican. that is secterian.
it is 'well documented' on fans websits (sellik and rangers) that mcgheadinho's views are of the nature i noted previuosly.
i agree that many NI fans behaved terribly toward the lurgan bigot, they should be ashamed.
i resent being called a bigot, never have been and have not uttered one bigotted word on here-find one!
neil lennon hates the rangers, spits on my teams colours and called me a dirty orange b****rd. he is also an effective and irritating player toward fans and opposition. thats why i hate the wee ginger prick. he was despised by oppostion fans and players b4 he came to celtic you know. remeber the shearer wonder kick for example. is shearer a bigot? were the newcastle fans bigots for cheering when he got booted in the face?
as b4 mcgheadinho is a turncoat b****rd. thats why i hate him also. as the fine gers fans sang last week at him in the san giro 'which country are you from?'. i suppose that is bigotted as well.
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parkhead_rfb
Getting on a bit!
Joined: 13 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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looks like mcgeadinho the oirish man scored today at ra sellik park
get it right up yi 
easy easy easy easy
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trueblue
3 Strikes - Banned!
Joined: 31 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2005 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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an excellent response to my points raised.
easy indeed.
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Dave78
On A Journey (500 Miles)
Joined: 15 Sep 2005
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| Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2005 1:14 pm Post subject: Re: r |
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| Rinty wrote: | | Is their anything wrong with someone who has an Irish parent being entrenched in his irish roots? |
McGeadys Granny came from Donegal - the rest of his family are all Scottish born and raised.
If he truely feels more Irish than Scottish, because of his Granny and his summer holidays as a kid in Donegal, then i have no problem with him playing for ROI...and i think he's made the right choice.
However i have to question if that's really the case...especially since the first national side he ever represented was Scotland in a u-14s youth tournament in France. Also his own father expected and encouraged him to play for Scotland, so i'm not convinced. 
I think McGeady chose the ROI because Scotland were utter sh*te then (dark days of the Berti era), and he expected Ireland to qualify for the world cup.
IMO Glory Seeking was the prime motivation in his choice. |
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parkhead_rfb
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| Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2005 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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i dont know where you got thhat from dave aidans father was a teacher at my school and was always very proud of his irish roots so i dont imagine he would have a problem wth his son choosing to play for Ireland.
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"there is no equality in a society that stands upon the political and economic bog, if only the strongest make it good or survive" bobby sands MP |
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Dave78
On A Journey (500 Miles)
Joined: 15 Sep 2005
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| Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2005 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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| parkhead_rfb wrote: | | i dont know where you got thhat from dave aidans father was a teacher at my school and was always very proud of his irish roots so i dont imagine he would have a problem wth his son choosing to play for Ireland. |
Firstly from Tommy Burns here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/f...ternationals/scotland/3662853.stm
| Quote: | "But even the Scotland manager taking time to talk to him didn't make a difference."
"His father wants him to play for Scotland, but he is a strong-willed young man. There is nothing we can do." |
Then his dad is quoted in this article in the Sunday Times:
http://69.93.29.242/hb/showthread.php?t=12658
| Quote: | If Celtic won their battle for McGeady, Scotland, the country of his birth, have already lost theirs to Ireland, the country of his heritage. Both nations were aware of him early. He represented Scotland at a secondary school international tournament in Paris against Brazil, Argentina and England before France 98 while still at primary school, and officials at the Scottish Schools Football Association (SSFA) were frustrated that later on Celtic wouldn’t let the St Ninian ’s High School pupil play for their under-15 side, but did eventually allow him to play for an Irish team at the same age level. Brian Kerr, who materminded their youth set-up before being promoted to managing the full national side, had been tipped off about McGeady’s potential, and Donegal heritage, by both Brady and Pat Bonner.
John, whose parents are from Gweedore in Donegal, presumed his son would play for Scotland and admits to being surprised by the vehemence of his declaration for the Republic, which has since survived a personal plea from Berti Vogts. “I consider myself Scottish born and bred,” he admits. “I grew up here and was educated here, as was Aiden, but from the moment he made his Irish under-15 debut right down on the southern tip of Wales, he’s felt part of their set-up. He wants to play in World Cups and European championships and feels that he might have more chance of reaching them with Ireland than Scotland. I have told him I am not sure if he’s right because I watch a lot of football and there are some promising players coming through in Scotland, but it was Aiden’s decision and he won’t change his mind.”
Ross Mathie, who manages Scotland’s youth sides, arranged the unprecedented meeting with Vogts at Hampden one day in a last-ditch attempt. “It is the first time I have taken a boy to meet the national manager,” he said. “It was because Aiden was that little bit different that we felt we had to go that extra mile. He’s one of these boys who can change a game with a piece of sudden excellence.” |
Glory seeking turncoat if ever i saw one!  |
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SLG
Born Again..........and still Scottish!
Joined: 16 Sep 2005
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| Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2005 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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Well spotted Dave. You wonder who is giving him advice outwith his family for him to make that decision. At that age, I don't think I would have gone against my dad's wishes. Maybe folk in the Ireland camp were filling his head with images of world cup glory etc. It's a tough decision to make as a 14/15 yr old.
It's really not that uncommon in sport though. Look at all the New Zealanders that play in the scotland rugby team, Nigel Quasie etc. The other way you have Peter Nicol the world no 1 at squash, who became English for the extra cash. It's now part of the game and at the end of the day it's a pretty minor offence. The only way to stop us losing out in future is to have a team that can reach the major competitions, with good facilities and who treat the kids well. |
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parkhead_rfb
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| Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2005 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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i consider myself scottish born and bred but im also proud of my irish roots. also my father takes less interest in our families roots than myself, didnt stop me. its all down to the individual and imo opinion this has only courted so much publicity due to aiden choosing ireland.
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SLG
Born Again..........and still Scottish!
Joined: 16 Sep 2005
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| Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2005 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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| parkhead_rfb wrote: | | this has only courted so much publicity due to aiden choosing ireland. |
Can't agree with that - apart from amongst the bigots. I can't actually think of many other cases where Scots have played for other countries, though Owen Coyle got a few games for Ireland did he not? I don't remember any problems about that. He played for Ireland at a time when Scotland had a decent team who he wouldn't have got a game for. That's the key difference - McGeady chose not to play for Scotland at a time when we were reaching our lowest ebe. If someone with his potential had gone to any country there would have been a negative reaction.
Even in other sports, the only person I can think of is Peter Nichol who became English. His move was widely criticised. Of course the squash comminity isn't quite so vocal as the football - it's also an individual sport. |
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parkhead_rfb
Getting on a bit!
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| Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2005 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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what if aidan had been muhammad and chose pakistan for example? i think people would have been scared to question it as they would have been labelled racist, so i dont see why the man who chooses ireland is fair game. no one has a right to define someone elses nationality.
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"there is no equality in a society that stands upon the political and economic bog, if only the strongest make it good or survive" bobby sands MP |
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SLG
Born Again..........and still Scottish!
Joined: 16 Sep 2005
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| Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2005 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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| parkhead_rfb wrote: | | what if aidan had been muhammad and chose pakistan for example? i think people would have been scared to question it as they would have been labelled racist, so i dont see why the man who chooses ireland is fair game. no one has a right to define someone elses nationality. |
On that you're right. But that says more about how we treat those from Islamic and Asian countries rather than anything about the Irish. If this was a kid with a Pakistani grandparents, I would express my disappointment in exactly the same way as I have with McGeady. It probably wouldn't have been made into a big deal by the press though for fear of being racist. And some of the genuine racists would probably have made it a racist issue on the terraces.
Is it not a good thing that the Irish community is so established that we all know they are Scots - just Scots who take pride in their heratige? and that we can make genuine comments about McGeady without being branded racist/sectarian? |
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parkhead_rfb
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| Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2005 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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i'm not saying everyone who is dissapointed at his decision is anti irish but it is my opinion that there is a fair amount of anti irish racism behind some of the criticisms. just in the same way that a lot of racists will hide their racism and try and justify it i feel many are doing the same with mcgeady. the fact it has been made such a big issue convinces me even more that this is the case.
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SLG
Born Again..........and still Scottish!
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| Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2005 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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Well as I've said, I think it's become such a big issue because the Scottish team were in such a state at the time and that this situation is something that hasn't come up before.
I'm sure some folk do use it as an excuse for the anti-Irish stuff (jsut as some folk would use it as an excuse to be racist is it was a Pakistani kid), but I'm pretty sure it only exists within bona fide bigots and not the general public. I've never really got into the sectarian debates on this site as I have never lived in the west central belt. It may be different there, but I really don't beleive this is a big issue in the rest of the country. |
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Dave78
On A Journey (500 Miles)
Joined: 15 Sep 2005
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| Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 9:38 am Post subject: |
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| SLG wrote: | Well as I've said, I think it's become such a big issue because the Scottish team were in such a state at the time and that this situation is something that hasn't come up before.
I'm sure some folk do use it as an excuse for the anti-Irish stuff (jsut as some folk would use it as an excuse to be racist is it was a Pakistani kid), but I'm pretty sure it only exists within bona fide bigots and not the general public. I've never really got into the sectarian debates on this site as I have never lived in the west central belt. It may be different there, but I really don't beleive this is a big issue in the rest of the country. |
Spot on.
My wife is a Dubliner, and we're actually moving there next summer. I can assure you parkhead that my feelings about McGeady are nothing to do with anti-Irishness. I'm sure that the same is true for the vast majority of other 'McGeady haters'.  |
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parkhead_rfb
Getting on a bit!
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| Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 10:48 am Post subject: |
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i cant claim that its true of everyone who disagrees with his decision i just feel that there is a large amount of anti irish feeling involved with a sizeable number of others and i dont feel that this is acknowledged a lot of the time.
by the way unlucky moving to dublin, hope your a rich man if you like a pint
ps though you will find many with anti irish sentiments who have been born and bred in dublin, west brits is the term we use for them.
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SLG
Born Again..........and still Scottish!
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| Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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| I remember being totally amazed when I met an Irish girl who told me that she thought the ROI would have been better off remaining part of Britain and that even now she though that they should become part of Britain again. There can't be many of them about though is there?? |
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Rinty
Ready For Afterlife!
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 2538
Location: SW Scotland
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| Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 12:46 pm Post subject: ch |
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Look, let's get this straight.
Scotland only pick players who play for their schools at U15 and U16 level. At U-14 it is only "representative" teams for tournaments and dozens of young players take part, this is not recognised as an official international and at times there are several "Scotland" teams playing at this age group.
Celtic (and Rangers and others) do not allow players to play for their schools after the age of 14. This is a decison that most pro clubs take as kids at that age start to seriously prepare for a professional career and schools cannot guarantee the correct level of coaching and players must fit in to a set programme of training and playing hours.
Celtic allowed McGeady to play for Ireland but not his school, they would also have allowed him to play for Scotland, but Schools FA rules meant he was not eligible.
My friends son is currently on the books of Rangers and recently featured in a Scotland U18 game. This was his first outing for Scotland for 3 or 4 years as he fell victim to the same rules as McGeady (he could not play for his school so therefore could not play for Scotland). This lad does not qualify for any other country so therefore did not have a choice to make. McGeady did.
McGeady's choice was simple - either play international football aged 15 and 16 for Ireland or play NO international football at all. His choice after that was simple - play for Ireland where you know you are part of the set up and know the staff and squad, or take the risk of choosing Scotland where you have not been part of the set up and attempt to establish yourself all over again.
From Daves post it would seem clear that McGeady did not take the decision based on his roots but rather on his footballing situation at the time.
As I said earlier, no-one would care if McGeady was an average player, just as no-one cared when Owen Coyle, Ray Houghton or Tommy Coyne played for Ireland, no-one cares that Brian McLean turns out for Northern Ireland. No-one gives a s**t either when a lad with Scots parents or Grandparents chooses Scotland over England, South Africa or any other country.
Richard Gough chose Scotland, Burton O'Brien chose South Africa, Liam Miller chose Ireland although he could have played for Scotland, many others have chosen Scotland over Ireland. The list is endless, the question is - WHY SINGLE OUT MCGEADY FOR ABUSE?
The answer, in light of all the posts here would seem to be twofold.
Reason One - he is a great wee player and Scots want him to play for us.
Reason Two - Bigots who hate all things Irish see him a wee "turncoat" or fenian.
Some people object two McGeady's decision for one of the above reasons others for a combination of both. |
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SLG
Born Again..........and still Scottish!
Joined: 16 Sep 2005
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Location: Dùn Eideann
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| Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Are there any signs that the SFA are looking to change there policy on this? It seems to be them that are losing out, and could lead to the same situation in future... |
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Dave78
On A Journey (500 Miles)
Joined: 15 Sep 2005
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| Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 11:09 pm Post subject: Re: ch |
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| Rinty wrote: | | From Daves post it would seem clear that McGeady did not take the decision based on his roots but rather on his footballing situation at the time. |
I'd agree with that.
If the SFA rules were different, then he'd probably be a Scotland player just now.
However, his decision to play for Ireland u-15s didn't lock him into their setup. Why couldn't he change back to Scotland when his country asked him?
Did he feel it would be disloyal to switch back to Scotland? Nice irony!
| Quote: | | As I said earlier, no-one would care if McGeady was an average player, just as no-one cared when Owen Coyle, Ray Houghton or Tommy Coyne played for Ireland, no-one cares that Brian McLean turns out for Northern Ireland. No-one gives a s**t either when a lad with Scots parents or Grandparents chooses Scotland over England, South Africa or any other country. |
Spot on....
We only care because he's one of (if not the) most gifted wingers Scotland has produced in decades.
| Quote: | | Richard Gough chose Scotland, Burton O'Brien chose South Africa, Liam Miller chose Ireland although he could have played for Scotland, many others have chosen Scotland over Ireland. The list is endless, the question is - WHY SINGLE OUT MCGEADY FOR ABUSE? |
I think it's because McGeadys link to Ireland is pretty tenuous.
Those players you mention (O'Brien and Miller) were born and raised in the countries they now play for.
| Quote: | The answer, in light of all the posts here would seem to be twofold.
Reason One - he is a great wee player and Scots want him to play for us.
Reason Two - Bigots who hate all things Irish see him a wee "turncoat" or fenian.
Some people object two McGeady's decision for one of the above reasons others for a combination of both. |
My reason (and i think 90% of other people who criticise him) is Number 1. That plus the fact that his father agreed his main motivation was so he could play in World Cups and European Championships.
I think the term 'turncoat glory seeker' describes him perfectly.
| SLG wrote: | | Are there any signs that the SFA are looking to change there policy on this? It seems to be them that are losing out, and could lead to the same situation in future... |
I think i remember reading that they changed it a while back.
| parkhead_rfb wrote: | | by the way unlucky moving to dublin, hope your a rich man if you like a pint |
You can say that again!!! 
We're trying to buy a house n'aww...not easy in Dublin when you're young! Although at the rate the house prices are rising i'll be a property millionaire in a year or two. |
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parkhead_rfb
Getting on a bit!
Joined: 13 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 12:18 am Post subject: |
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not a fan of dublin myself. id move to belfast, dundalk or deonegal if it was me. price of a pints a joke in dublin
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"our revenge will be the laughter of our children" bobby sands MP
"there is no equality in a society that stands upon the political and economic bog, if only the strongest make it good or survive" bobby sands MP |
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