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azzuri · 'Our Scotland' Fossil Joined: 12 Sep 2005 Posts: 3796

....or give them targets to meet with instructions that if/when they reach them they will be invited to apply for membership.
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SLG · Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 7:36 pm Post subject:

And encourage better dialog between them and the countries to the south and east of them so that there isn't this growing resentment.

Aventinian · Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:19 am Post subject:

LAz · Nationalist Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 113

I'd say no.

First of all, they are not a country worth considering joining anything aside from repressive regimes who enjoy violating human rights and committing genocide.

We know what happened when they went into europe the last time... they fucked up the balkans.

Face it people, if they joined then a lot of their people will go to Europe. And guess what, they're muslim, and muslims have never managed to assimilate into christian countries. And you know what will happen after that? They have high birthrates, so over time they will become the new europeans. I seriously do not want to see one nation taking over the other one and changing that place. We see that in Kosovo and there the churchs, whcih are many hundreds of years old, are being destroyed by the muslims.

Cultures must not mix. The next wars will be between cultures.

Aventinian · Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 2:40 pm Post subject:

Oh look, there goes another darkie taking your job...

Ridiculous.
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LAz · Nationalist Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 113

Aventinian · Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:00 pm Post subject:

My experiences of Muslims are admittedly rather skant. I have one Muslim Arab friend, who has integrated perfectly, speaks better English than most of the natives, contributes to society, pays his taxes, thinks about his religion about as much as the average British Christian (that is to say, not often) and basically does everything you'd expect of an upstanding citizen.

So what is the problem with Muslims integrating? Is it perhaps simply that they are generally more religiously devout? Well I'll tell you now, most people are by nature apathetic to religion - being holy has always been the preserve of the few in a normal and secure society. Our problem with Muslims is that they are not as apathetic as we are. But do we take the time to consider why?

Like Nationalism, religious devotion is at its strongest when a religion is threatened. As far as many see it, we've not moved on since the Crusades, so they certainly won't. And we, as the Christian west, are hardly putting them at ease - demonising them or hauling them out of their beds at dawn when they are here and invading their countries when they are back in their traditional homelands.

It's much like when I hear an American comment on how little the blacks have integrated into their society. To be quite honest, I don't think it is their fault. And in this case, I think we need to look inward to see why Muslims aren't integrating with us. Just because they are in the minority doesn't automatically mean they are the ones at fault.
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'Socialists cry "Power to the people", and raise the clenched fist as they say it. We all know what they really mean—power over people, power to the State.'

Pip · Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:29 pm Post subject:

While I have a degree of suspicion about the 'Clash of Civilizations' concept I don't like the way it's dismissed out of hand as racist and hysterical. There are wider issues in the Islamic world, such as the growing dominance of Wahabism and the corresponding decline of Sufism, and the issues with Israel and the US/UK.

However specific to the Muslim population in England, I've had many Muslim friends and colleagues, who are mostly from Pakistani backgrounds, but others from North Africa and East Asia. My real issue is with the Muslim Council of Britain. Labour in particular have done deals with the leaders of ethnic-minority communities to deliver, in this case the Muslim vote, and have carved up the inner cities into easily digested bloc-votes. The end result is nationwide ghettoisation. The MCB speak are able to speak for the entire Islamic community, even though they are unelected and self-appointing. They are pushing a strong anti-integrationist agenda, in which the Islamic community has to become more conservative and the rest of society has to accommodate them, sometimes to extreme lengths.
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Jimbo · This is Ma' Life! Joined: 18 Feb 2007 Posts: 799

I agree with Aventinian and couldn't have put it better. I have Muslim friends (mostly from Pakistan) who I find to be on the whole to be very down to earth, friendly and law abiding. They also all, without exception, go to the Mosque every Friday. Some are part of the Asians for Independence movement.

They do however feel that they are being demonised by New Labour, who, if they've done a deal with the MCB, does not seem to be reflected here in Scotland by anyone I've spoken to.

If there is one day a clash of cultures I feel it will be brought about by the Bush/Blair axis who seem hellbent on stomping all over the middle east.

Pip · Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 12:38 am Post subject:

Jimbo · This is Ma' Life! Joined: 18 Feb 2007 Posts: 799

Hi Pip,

Bad wording on my part. I'm not saying we don't that problem in Scotland. What I should have said was 'in Scotland amongst the Asians personally known to me or their friends who I have spoken to.'

I attended the Pakistan Independence day celebrations last August and the main topics were Iraq and and the Muslim attitude towards NL. Or rather, what they feel is NL's attitude towards Muslims. None of it boded well re NL. There seems to be an underlying feeling that this is an attack not just on Iraq but on Islam.

Pip · Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 2:48 pm Post subject:

cornubian · Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 6:21 pm Post subject:

I say yes but with reserve.

The process of adhesion should be long with plenty of steps along the way.

Turkey needs to prove its ready to accept the values of the EU.

We need to engage with Turkey productively and their entry into the EU would be an olive branch to the muslim world.

It would also ensure that the national minorities of Turkey such as the Kurds would have a much rosier future.

It would go a long way to resolving the Armenia V Azerbijan conflict which as it stands could flare up at any time.
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LAz · Nationalist Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 113

Sorry for not replying sooner.
Anyways, it's true that there are many muslims who do assimilate into the Western society, but the reality is that most do not.

agentmancuso · Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 10:27 am Post subject:

LAz · Nationalist Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 113

agentmancuso · Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 7:59 pm Post subject:

LAz · Nationalist Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 113

agentmancuso · Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 8:09 am Post subject: