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trueblue

see when rangers fans boo balde and they are called rascist, does this mean that bug marv being booed by the greatest fans in the world (copyright-celti fans) yesterday was rascism?

and that has just reminded me of the mark walters in cident back in the 80's

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parkhead_rfb · Getting on a bit! Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974

hold on am away into the kitchen to get you some more straws to clutch at.

first of all if i heard anyone racially abusing someone at celtic park i would admit it and be ashamed of the celtic support for doing so, i certainly didnt hear anyone racially abuse andrews in my area or any other, did anyone hear this on tv? as its certainly the first mention i have heard of it its not even been on follow follow, but then they would be more likely to congratulate that type of thing.

to be honest this just looks like a rangers fan who cant handle that his team are so rank rotten and has to invent criticisms of celtic fans.

who shagged all the boys? hartson wheres your wife? up to our knees in fenian blood, no chapels no priests no rosary beads....all of the afore mentioned and many others were heard yesterday. Rolling Eyes

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"our revenge will be the laughter of our children" bobby sands MP

"there is no equality in a society that stands upon the political and economic bog, if only the strongest make it good or survive" bobby sands MP

azzuri · 'Our Scotland' Fossil Joined: 12 Sep 2005 Posts: 3771

this is just silly.

rangers and celtic fans have some racists amongst their fans just like that of any other team. It just happens to be that both teams have more supporters so there are literally more racists amongst them.

this is normally members of the older generation who participate in this or find this acceptable - because when they were younger it generally was (acceptable that is).

The ironic thing is that these guys wouldn't think twice about calling an opposition player a 'monkey' but when a black player in their own team scores a goal or makes a last gasp saving tackle they are happy to cheer them. It's a backward attitude that will die out with the older fans, I'd be surprised if we still hear this sort of thing at football matches in 10 or 20 years. Pity the same can't be said about sectarianism.
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parkhead_rfb · Getting on a bit! Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974

i disagree rs. you may or may not be aware that in the past combat 18 and other such groups have been seen circulating literature within the rangers support, they tried the same at celtic but were soon told where to go. It was also in the papers not so long ago that when a shop was raided in belfast fascist literature was found along side rangers merchandise hmmm go figure. From personal experience with marches it is a well known occurence for fascist groups to team up with rangers casuals, loyalists etc to attempt to disrupt our marches. Loyalism is very well linked to fascism and the rangers support is linked to loyalism, these are facts. I am not suggesting that there are no racists in the celtic support but they wouldnt wait long before they were told to what to do with there comments and most certainly would be told the same if they tried to distribute fascist literature etc.
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"our revenge will be the laughter of our children" bobby sands MP

"there is no equality in a society that stands upon the political and economic bog, if only the strongest make it good or survive" bobby sands MP

trueblue · Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 2:41 pm Post subject:

SLG · Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 3:57 pm Post subject:

azzuri · 'Our Scotland' Fossil Joined: 12 Sep 2005 Posts: 3771

Correct - no one from any team has the moral high ground here.

This is a great advert for Scottish football - you two would rather your rival lost than your own team won - sad stuff indeed.
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"Every single person on this planet is unique. Just like everyone else..." - Random Guy in Edinburgh Pub

Possibly the funniest site in the world, 'The Daily Mash' - http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/

parkhead_rfb · Getting on a bit! Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974

why do you always feel the need to resort to silly nicknames? still hurting about the oirish mans goal Laughing

I'm afraid the fact that glasgow rangers fans are linked to fascist groups is pretty much a fact and to deny it really would be revisionism at its best.
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"our revenge will be the laughter of our children" bobby sands MP

"there is no equality in a society that stands upon the political and economic bog, if only the strongest make it good or survive" bobby sands MP

parkhead_rfb · Getting on a bit! Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974

In Scotland, supporters have formed a national campaign to combat racism in football. SCARF (Supporters' Campaign Against Racism in Football) was formed in 1991 in response to an increase in far-right activity at Scottish grounds, mainly involving the BNP. Most of the campaign consists of leafleting the worst affected grounds, Rangers and Hearts being two examples, but it has not been without its problems. As well as- one female campaigner being threatened and others abused, SCARF say that they have had a problem in getting clubs and officials to recognise that there is a problem at all.

http://www.sirc.org/publik/fvracism.html#_VPID_78

Fanzines started in the mid 1980s and have offered an alternative, positive view of football fans in the post-Heysel era. Now almost every club has at least one fanzine and Garland and Rowe claim that these are almost exclusively anti-racist. Some are actually produced by anti-racist groups themselves such as Marching Altogether (LFUARAF) and Filbo Fever (Leicester City Foxes Against Racism). Other clubs whose fanzines actively support anti-racism campaigns include Everton, Celtic, Manchester United, Cardiff City, Leyton Orient and Chelsea. One criticism levelled at fanzines is that they are simply preaching to the converted as the fans who buy them will already be anti-racist. Nevertheless, fanzines have enjoyed increasing popularity over the last few years which should be recognised as a positive sign and the LFUARAF recognises this problem and for this purpose gives away Marching Altogether free at matches.
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"our revenge will be the laughter of our children" bobby sands MP

"there is no equality in a society that stands upon the political and economic bog, if only the strongest make it good or survive" bobby sands MP

parkhead_rfb · Getting on a bit! Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/...s/2001/bnp_special/roots/1992.stm

The BNP announced that it would contest 14 seats in the General Election although only 13 stood including John Tyndall and Lady Jane Birdwood.
In early 1992, the BNP formed Combat 18 as a stewarding group to protect its events. Combat 18, taking its name from the first and eighth letter of the alphabet - AH - for Adolph Hitler, attracted the most violent supporters of Britain's far right.

Its leaders include Paul David 'Charlie' Sargent, a man with convictions for drug running and Eddie Whicker, a former National Front parliamentary candidate and a leading activist with London UDA.

The targets of attacks by Combat 18 included the offices of the Morning Star in April 1992 and the Democratic Left offices in Birmingham in August 1992.

Zoë Heller interviewed The BNP's chairman, John Tyndall, in August 1992 for an article in the Independent on Sunday.

She said, "The BNP was certainly the ugliest organisation I had come across in my search for an authentic Nazi menace. In spite of everything, though, it still seemed less frightening than ludicrous.... But to see [Tyndall] travel three-and-a-half hours up the motorway in order to lead 250 men around a deserted Walsall industrial estate, with only a heavy contingent of police and a few curious children on bikes as his audience, is to understand the pathetic truth of the man".

By the end of 1992, the BNP had grown to around 2,000 members organised in to more that 50 branches.

BNP member Barry Osborne attracted 657 votes, 20% of votes cast in a by-election in the Millwall ward of Tower Hamlets, the most successful result to date.

Four 'activists' were jailed in July 1993 for an attack on staff from an Indian restaurant in Buntingford, Hertfordshire. Two of the four were BNP members. The other two both admitted to regularly attending BNP gigs and rallies.

The head of the Football Unit of the National Criminal Intelligence Service (NCIS), Superintendent Adrian Appleby, claimed that the BNP had targeted several football clubs.

He identified Heart of Midlothian, Chelsea, Glasgow Rangers, Blackburn, Burnley and Oxford United. Many members of the Chelsea Headhunters and the Portsmouth-based 657 Crew were apparently BNP supporters.

The BNP achieved victory in a local by-election in September 1993. Derek Beackon became councillor for the Millwall ward of Tower Hamlets.

He attracted 33.9 per cent of the vote, a swing of 11 per cent to the BNP since a similar council by-election in Millwall in October 1992.

On 19 September 1993 police used riot shields and horses to break up fights between BNP and anti-Fascist activists who had met in the East End. Twenty-seven activists were arrested. A subsequent council meeting was postponed because violence was feared.

A split occurred between Combat 18 and the British National Party. BNP leader John Tyndall, who had previously relied upon C18 for providing physical back-up for the BNP's activities, claimed that it had become hostile to the BNP.

In particular, Tyndall was irritated that C18's magazine The Order had questioned his ability to lead the party. BNP members were told that no members could simultaneously be members of Combat 18. In response dozens of BNP members left to join C18.

Combat 18 took its name from the initials of Adolf Hitler

Derek Beackon celebrates his victory in the 1993 local elections
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"our revenge will be the laughter of our children" bobby sands MP

"there is no equality in a society that stands upon the political and economic bog, if only the strongest make it good or survive" bobby sands MP

parkhead_rfb · Getting on a bit! Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974

http://macintyre.com/content/view/62/105/

Headhunters unmasked
The scourge of football hooliganism reared its ugly head again last month as England took on Scotland in a two-legged play off for a place in next summer's Euro 2000 championships. In Scotland 170 fans were arrested after clashes in Glasgow, while more were picked up in London in the return fixture a few days later. The trouble would have been considerably worse had it not been for the largest police operation for a sporting event in British history.
Hooliganism was also on show when the BBC broadcast a documentary about the notorious Chelsea Headhunters football hooligans. Over the whole of the last football season, BBC journalist Donal McIntyre spent time in the company of some of Britain's most violent hooligans.

McIntyre, and several other BBC journalists, secretly filmed football violence, the organising of fights and the boasting afterwards. More importantly perhaps, the programme gave the viewers an insight into the minds and mentally of English hooligans.

McIntyre befriended Jason Marriner, 32, a long-time hooligan and loyalist. Through Marriner, he was to meet some of the most violent hooligans around: Andy Frain, nickmaned Nightmare, who boasted while on the way up to Scotland of cutting up an off-duty policeman; the twins, David and Ian Sim, who were later to be sent to prison for attacking Spurs fans; Stuart Glass, who was filmed on camera snorting cocaine off a pub table; and Tony Covele, one of the country's best known hooligans.

While most of the Chelsea hooligans McIntyre met were in their thirties, he also crossed paths with the Reading Youth Firm, a younger group of hooligans in their late teens and early twenties who follow Reading. They too were involved in drug-dealing, violence and nazi politics.

It was, therefore, unsurprising that his journey brought him into contact with some of Britain's most extreme nazis. There is widespread racism among the Headhunters, with many having some connection to nazi groups such as Combat 18, the Ku Klux Klan and the British National Party.

On a trip to Copenhagen, Marriner recalled a trip to the nazi death camp in Auschwitz he made with Any Frain where they mocked visitors with nazi salutes. "I quickly took the photo [of Frain doing a nazi salute] and a Polish geezer started crying," Marriner told the BBC. "I think I put the final nail in the coffin when I tried to get into the oven."

Trips to Auschwitz have become a regular occurrence for Chelsea supporters on their trips into the East. C18 magazines reproduce photographs of their activities there, including some where the hooligans are lying on concrete slabs and stealing artefacts.

A few days after returning from the Copenhagen trip Marriner displayed his racist views. In footage rarely seen on British TV, he shouted racist abuse at black and Asian people, and on one occasion spat at someone waiting at a bus stop. Some of the most shocking language used by these Chelsea racists was considered too extreme to be aired on the BBC.

Travelling up to Leicester for a fight with rival hooligans, Andy Frain told McIntyre how he had been deported from the US in the early 1990s while on a trip to visit the KKK. He said he was also imprisoned in Scotland after being caught in possession of Klan hate material. "That didn't go down too well," he joked.

Even the young Reading hooligans were quick to spout off their racism. On a trip to Bristol Crown Court, Danny Walford and Ian Payne both described their hatred of black people and spoke approvingly of the London nailbomber, especially the bomb that went off in a gay bar in Soho. Payne said that gay people got what they deserved.

Both young men have been involved in nazi politics. Payne, a close associate of Stuart Glass and his more political brother, Warren, has attended National Front (NF) activities in both Dover and London, while Walford has accompanied Frain to nazi concerts.

The Headhunters' links to the far right stem from the mid-1970s, as the skinhead youth culture became increasingly politicised and associated with football hooliganism. The Kings Road, very close to the Chelsea ground, became a focal point for west and south London skinheads. It was during this period that Stuart Glass and many of the older hooligans became active with both the Headhunters and the NF.

A right-wing culture soon developed at Chelsea, with both the NF and British Movement targeting the fans and hooligans for recruitment. As the culture became dominant, so Chelsea attracted more right wingers from a far greater area.

The Headhunter heyday was back in the mid-1980s when Steven Hickmott led the group. It was not uncommon for 200 people to be arrested in violent clashes against Sunderland, Leeds and Middlesboro.

Hickmott was eventually picked up by police in the country's first undercover football operation. Sentenced to ten years for organising violence (later overturned after police evidence was questioned), Hickmott was replaced with Chris "Chubby" Henderson, a long-time nazi activist and singer with the Oi band Combat 84. In 1987 he, along with Stuart Glass, was also targeted by undercover police, but was acquitted. Henderson now runs a bar in Thailand, a regular haunt for travelling hooligans like Marriner.

After a few years in the doldrums a revitalised Headhunters emerged in 1990 with a new leadership under Tony Covele. Younger and arguably more violent, this gang became dominant on the England scene for much of the early to mid 1990s. In 1993, Covele led a 300-strong group for the England visit to Holland. As can be seen in footage shown on Channel 4 in 1994, it was only after his arrival at Rotterdam train station that the other English hooligans ran off into battle.

The close Headhunter association with following England has increased the nationalist and xenophobic attitudes of many Chelsea hooligans. Regular trips to Glasgow Rangers and Northern Ireland have only reinforced this relationship.

During much of C18's existence, it has been the Chelsea Headhunters who have formed the largest single group within it, to the point where the political group was widely seen as a Chelsea "firm".

In 1994 C18 began producing The Stormer, a tatty magazine glorifying Headhunter soccer violence. It was during this period that C18-Headhunters begun their vicious campaign against the Chelsea Independent Supporters Association (CISA), which had angered them by supporting anti-racist campaigns. In one incident, in August 1994, four CISA activists were taken to hospital with serious injuries after being attacked in the Finborough Arms in West London.

The following year 40 Headhunters joined a similar number of C18 activists at Warren Glass's election count in Hounslow where he was contesting a council by-election for the BNP. The night turned ugly as the hooligan and nazi mob went on the rampage. The victorious Labour candidate was struck on the head with a brick.

It was at this year's Bloody Sunday demonstration in central London that McIntyre saw the real connection between the Chelsea Headhunters and British nazis . Weeks before the event, Marriner was excitedly telling McIntyre about his role in organising an attack on the march. On the day Marriner was in the close company of Andy Frain, and Will Browning and Darren Wells of C18. Altogether there were 30 Headhunters present out of a total turnout of 80.

The tribal nature of football will always make some involved in hooliganism susceptible to the overtures of the far right. While only a minority will actually become active in nazi groups, the violent nationalism that accompanies English hooliganism abroad and the strong loyalism that is dominant within the scene combines to produce a breeding ground for xenophobia and racism. The Chelsea Headhunters is one example of how the culture of racism and nazism becomes entrenched in a gang of hooligans.

The Ones Who Got Away!
A supposed "pre-season friendly" between Reading and West Ham in July 1996 turned out to be anything but, as dozens of rival fans clashed. Travelling West Ham hooligans were met by a combined Chelsea and Reading firm after the game. Barry Lewis, a West Ham hooligan, was one of 13 people taken to hospital, after being, as the local newspaper described, "slashed, punched and kicked by a gang brandishing knives and glasses". He was cut across his throat and had a tendon severed in his arm, which needed 368 stitches.
Despite seven men being charged for this assault, (see pictures above), and the incident being caught on CCTV, no one ever was prosecuted. The Crown Prosecution Service decided to drop the case after Lewis failed to make an appearance at court. In undercover footage obtained by Donal MacIntyre, several Chelsea and Reading hooligans discuss this attack. On his way up to the Manchester City v Millwall match, Danny Walford described how the witness was scared off, while Jason Marriner suggested that it was Vincent Drake who wielded the knife.
It is perhaps ironic that Barry Lewis had arranged the fight with Andy Frain while both had been in prison a few months earlier.

by Nick Lowles
Searchlight Magazine
December 1999
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"our revenge will be the laughter of our children" bobby sands MP

"there is no equality in a society that stands upon the political and economic bog, if only the strongest make it good or survive" bobby sands MP

trueblue · Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 8:02 pm Post subject:

trueblue · Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 8:03 pm Post subject:

trueblue · Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 8:07 pm Post subject:

parkhead_rfb · Getting on a bit! Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974

celtic.
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"our revenge will be the laughter of our children" bobby sands MP

"there is no equality in a society that stands upon the political and economic bog, if only the strongest make it good or survive" bobby sands MP

SLG · Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 8:41 pm Post subject:

trueblue · Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 8:42 pm Post subject:

nah their fans have never ever,ever been involved in donated to or supported extreme political groups or terrorist activists. or collected for the boys back home outside grounds. sang songs of murder and hate. celtic fans have never murdered rangers fans.

you are a f***ing numpty.

you go on about rangers, chelsa,burnley f**k knows who else (i stopped reading) and you really do feel you have some sort of morale high ground.

i have stated i'am well aware of the problem with some of the rangers fans. you are just f***ing blind. i will have nothing more to do with you. you redneck, crackerjack, banjo playing bigot.
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SLG · Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 8:49 pm Post subject:

parkhead_rfb · Getting on a bit! Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974

and over a computer at that, your welcome to find me at a march and try and say it to my face, or you can stand at the side singing rule britannia whilst making nazi salutes like the rest of your mates Laughing

_________________
"our revenge will be the laughter of our children" bobby sands MP

"there is no equality in a society that stands upon the political and economic bog, if only the strongest make it good or survive" bobby sands MP

SLG · Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 10:45 pm Post subject: