Our Scotland - www.our-scotland.org

Corby Boy · Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 3:27 pm Post subject:

Tims are very welcome here, Tims are part of our society. Just as people like Aventinian are welcome here. All views should be heard.

Agentmancuso makes some very important points about the killing of civilians in the name of a cause, as much as I respect Parkhead RFB point of view politically.

The laugh of it is, most of us on this site agree with the whole concept of a united Ireland as its current split is as unnatural in our eyes as Scotland's continued participation in the union.

I am just glad that a new way has been found in the north of Ireland and I hope those that clove to their links there, catholic or protestant alike in Scotland will reflect this new way forward and develop a sense of understanding to the opposite community.

This is probably too idealistic by far, but sensible people in these communities should take note of it.

Corby Boy · Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 3:51 pm Post subject:

Back to football supporting to attempt to get back on track in some way:

As an Anglo Scot myself, I can understand a ScotsIrish / Irish Scot supporting Ireland over Scotland so I wouldn't criticise that. After all its about what you feel you are inside.

Arguably perhaps harder for an Anglo-Scot to support England due to the obvious rivalry, than a ScotsIrish/IrishScot to support Scotland as well as Ireland as there isn't really the rivalry there as such.

However, when it comes to England, I don't actively, not support them or support the opposing side if they are playing some other country (other than Scotland). I actually wanted them to do well in the last world cup (although winning the damn thing would have been a nightmare - that was never on the cards, and probably won't be for another 40 odd years!).

So, I am saying that I acknowledge the country of my birth and residence even if I don't feel English inside.

Rinty · Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 4:05 pm Post subject:

Thats because Corby IS in Scotland, no matter what it says on a map. Rfb doesnt support Ireland or Scotland.

But I have to disagree with you on England, I want them to losoe every time they play anyone at any sport and its not because I am anti-english, its because I hate their arrogant sportsmen, commentators and fans.

I support Scotland in football and usually Pakistan in cricket although Scotland has thrown that out reccently by actually emerging in cricket. I world cups where we dont have a presence I will support an underdog, possibly Ireland, Northern Ireland, jamaica or whoever.

Cymro · Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 4:46 pm Post subject: Re: n

Pip · Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 4:58 pm Post subject:

parkhead_rfb · Getting on a bit! Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974

parkhead_rfb · Getting on a bit! Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974

[quote="agentmancuso
I do have a problem with republicans. I refuse to accept that glorifying the indiscriminate killing of civilians qualifies as a political 'view'. As I've said before, it is a symptom of emotional imbalance. Murder is murder. Dressing it up in some ridiculous adolescent phantasy about 'oppression' changes nothing.[/quote]

As rinty has pointed out i have answered this point time without number, but i will do so again.

Irish republicans conducted a campaign of violence and yes civillians were killed in this campaign. The IRA have apologised for such events and while it most certainly will be no consolation to the victims familes the IRA were fighting a war with the British and its a fact that in every war there will be civillian casualties.

The IRA did not, however, indiscriminately attack civillians. What the IRA did was a campaign of economic bombings, warnings were phoned to ensure as best possible that civillian casualties were avoided.

had they not done this casualties would have been in their hundreds at least in attacks. This fact, and it is a fact that warnings were phoned, clearly shows that the IRA did not indiscriminately attack civillians. your claim is unfounded nonsense. Because you personally may not agree with the IRA and their objectives doesnt give you the right to spout points which are clearly wrong.

I would also assume from your stance that you are an outright pacifist. if not then i will assume that you hold the same views on every army? you will be hard pressed to find an army out there which has not caused the death of civillians during armed conflict.

or are you part of the group which legitimises the actions of the british army etc because in some fantasy they are legitimate? tell that to the victims of bloody sunday.
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"our revenge will be the laughter of our children" bobby sands MP

"there is no equality in a society that stands upon the political and economic bog, if only the strongest make it good or survive" bobby sands MP

Cymro · Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 6:54 am Post subject: Re: n

Corby Boy · Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:29 am Post subject:

Rinty, I have been arguing for years that Corby is an off Shoot of Scotland thanks for confirming it! Having stated all that I have previously said in my last post, I do find it genetically difficult to support England!

Pip - you need to understand the make up of the population of Corby and its Pscyhe to see where myself and Rinty are coming from in our posts.

Granted there are Anglo-Scots everywhere in England. But Corby is unique in many ways (both good and bad). It is a microcosm of Motherwell or Glasgow with a healthy smattering of Scots from other parts of Scotland.

Highland gatherings, Grampian pipeband, Haggis in batter and chips which is a staple diet as is Irn Bru (largest sales outside of Scotland) and white pudding but a few indicators!

Corby despite being located geographically where it is, is Scottish to the core. That's why there are always fun and games during England v Scotland matches.

Rinty · Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 1:34 pm Post subject: h

agentmancuso · Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 8:59 pm Post subject:

parkhead_rfb · Getting on a bit! Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974

ah a legitimate army. I am sure the victims of bloody sundar are eternally gratefull that they were killed by a legitimate army, imagine their horror had it been an illigitimate one....horrendous.

who exactly has the right to decree an army legitimate? the leaders if the 1916 rising did not have any "legitimacy" are they now heroes because the 26 county state has decreed them as such?

To me the british army are an illegitimate army, their presence is not legitimate in ireland, iraq or anywhere else they take their unwanted forces, the fact they wear a fancy uniform means nothing to me.

One day nelson mandella was an illegitimate terrorist, the next he is a hero. It would seem that legitimacy is merely a badge granted by the powerfull to justify their actions.
_________________
"our revenge will be the laughter of our children" bobby sands MP

"there is no equality in a society that stands upon the political and economic bog, if only the strongest make it good or survive" bobby sands MP

agentmancuso · Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 10:23 pm Post subject:

Cymro · Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 9:47 am Post subject:

Erm Parkie, just my tuppence worth but the British Army are a legitimate Army - i.e. it's an Official 'tool' (in both sense of the words in my opinion Very Happy

) of an Official International State.

They are a legitimate Army in Northern Ireland, Iraq, Afghanistan, Cyprus, Gibraltar and many many othr countries. Regard them as an Occupational Force if you wish (I'd agree with you in the case of Northern Ireland), that doesn't alter their existance as a legitimate official army belonging to an Internationaly recognised state.

If the Irish Free State and later the Irish Republic upon it's creation had made the IRA its official army and it kept a presence in Northern Ireland then you could then argue that the IRA was a legitimate army. But alas it wasn't The IRA was and is in essence a voluntary organisation set up to fight for Irish Independence. That may make the cause legitimate, that doesn't make the body legitimate though.

Regarding the UIrish Volunteers in 1916, they where herors. I agree with that. Why do they have to belong to a legitimate Army in order to be heroes? They gave their lives fighting the British state. Chances are the knew they'd fail but hoped it would become a beacon for Irish Republicanism. They succeeded in that respect.

parkhead_rfb · Getting on a bit! Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974

the point is cymro how the epitath changes because eventually they got a part of their wish.

how can the british army also be legitimate if you both admit that they are taking part in an illegal occupation? how can they go against "international law" and still be legitimate?

there was also an occassion where a british soldier was wounded and dying in the occupied six counties, at this time he told a fellow soldier he wished his possessions to go to his then partner. what is interesting about this is that in a time of war a oral will by a soldier is accepted as valid by the law, otherwise it would not be. that soldiers mother contested the oral will and lost. it seems that even british courts saw the IRA as fighting a war.
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"our revenge will be the laughter of our children" bobby sands MP

"there is no equality in a society that stands upon the political and economic bog, if only the strongest make it good or survive" bobby sands MP

Babygael · Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:30 am Post subject:

there is no such thing as 'british' except to their slavish dawgs!
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Here is where I come to water my roots.

agentmancuso · Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 7:43 am Post subject:

Corby Boy · Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:48 am Post subject:

This thread has gone way off at a tangent. I can't see how the last few posts have got anything to do with 'Scots Abroad'!

Cymro · Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:51 am Post subject:

agentmancuso · Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:55 pm Post subject:

I agree entirely Cymro, with the one proviso that it is a logical absurdity to speak of Northern Ireland as 'occupied' when the majority of the population are in favour of remaining part of the UK.
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