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darkside
Gaining a Reputation........
Joined: 01 Feb 2006
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Location: Glaschu, Alba
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 Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 7:42 pm Post subject: City gears up for 10,000 Orangemen to join march |
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http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=453432007
THE largest Orange Lodge parade ever seen in Edinburgh is expected to see 10,000 people march through the city centre tomorrow.
Extra police have been drafted in to cope with the massive march which will include 80 bands.
The event has been organised to celebrate the 300th anniversary of the Act of Union, and the huge expected turnout is believed to be in part due to the prospect of an SNP election victory.
Only 5000 members were initially expected, but in recent weeks organisers have been told about a surge in support for the parade which could double that figure.
Organisation for the parade has been discussed for more than three months, with both the police and the council carrying out risk and traffic assessments.
Up to 160 coaches are expected to converge on the Meadows, to drop off lodge members from the west coast.
More than 160 police officers will be posted along the route. There has never been any significant trouble on Orange Lodge marches in Edinburgh, although none has been on this scale.
Under an agreement signed last year to tackle sectarian violence, parade organisers are now expected to eject marchers who are drunk, abusive or violent, as well as confiscating any paramilitary flags, symbols or other paraphernalia. A police spokeswoman said they hoped the event would be a peaceful one. "We have drafted in extra officers to police what we hope will be a peaceful event," said a police spokeswoman.
"We were expecting around 5000 marchers, but if there are more they will be facilitated. Edinburgh is used to hosting such large scale events, and so we can only hope that this event passes off without incident as so many others have."
However, she said there would obviously be an unavoidable knock-on effect on city-centre traffic as a result of the march, and advised motorists to stay away from the area if possible.
"Before the march there will be a large number of coaches coming into the city, which has the potential to cause significant congestion," said a police spokeswoman. "So at around 11.30am, if drivers can possibly avoid the area around the Meadows, they would be advise to do so."
Grand Masters from Scotland, England and Ireland will all attend and address members on the subject of the Union.
Ian Wilson, Grand Master of Scotland, Robert Saulters, Grand Master of Ireland and Ronald Bather, Grand Master of England will hold a service of worship and public meeting at the Meadows at 12.30pm. Following this, the members will form up for the parade,. which is expected to leave at around 1.30pm. The parade route will go up Middle Meadow Walk, travel down Forrest Road, George IV Bridge, High Street, Canongate and Abbeyhill with dispersal on Regent Road.
Mr Wilson said: "I believe the unprecedented number of members taking part in a parade in Edinburgh is an indicator of how strongly our members feel about preserving the Union.
"We expected around 3000-5000 members to attend but we have been overwhelmed by the support we have received from all parts of Scotland. Our estimates from the lodges around Scotland point to around 10,000 participants descending on Edinburgh in what we expect to be a fun, family, celebratory event.
"All members of the Orange Lodge care passionately about the Union and felt that the Anniversary of the Act of Union in 1707 should not pass unnoticed. It is ironic that in this historic year where we celebrate the Act of Union, we also face an election where that Union is under threat.
"In just over a month's time there is the real threat of a Nationalist victory in the Scottish Parliamentary elections. This would be the beginning of the end for the Union. At our parade we will be sending a clear message to the separatists that whilst we may all want to see a stronger, better government in Scotland, we won't tinker with the Union to achieve it."
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Jimbo
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Joined: 18 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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| This kind of thing should be thrown into the trash can of religious history. They say Scotland's secret shame is its religious bigotry. It's not so secret when it's paraded on the streets of our towns and cities year after year by these numpties. |
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Aventinian
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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There's nothing particularly bigoted about the Orange Order; just a lot of its members.
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Reluctant Hero
Collecting my 'Our Scotland' Pension!
Joined: 17 Sep 2005
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Jimbo wrote: | | This kind of thing should be thrown into the trash can of religious history. They say Scotland's secret shame is its religious bigotry. It's not so secret when it's paraded on the streets of our towns and cities year after year by these numpties. |
Jimbo, at the risk of starting another 10 page sectarian thread  , it is central Scotland's secret shame.
Travel north of the central belt and no-one gives a toss about this pish.
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SLG
Born Again..........and still Scottish!
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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Wonder how many of these people will even be coming from Edinburgh though. Not many I would have thought.
Still I don't mind this, I think all it does is paint Unionism into a outdated Orange/Norther Ireland style corner. At the same time, the independence movement is only gaining a broader appeal. |
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Jimbo
This is Ma' Life!
Joined: 18 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Reluctant Hero wrote: | | Jimbo wrote: | | This kind of thing should be thrown into the trash can of religious history. They say Scotland's secret shame is its religious bigotry. It's not so secret when it's paraded on the streets of our towns and cities year after year by these numpties. |
Jimbo, at the risk of starting another 10 page sectarian thread , it is central Scotland's secret shame.
Travel north of the central belt and no-one gives a toss about this pish. |
I have no intention of getting involved in an sectarian thread. I have as much interest in getting religion as I have in getting cancer. To me, religion is the anesthetic for the weak minded fearty. It's all superstitious mumbo jumbo to me. I knew a mega bigot from Kingussie though.  |
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kevin04
I Love 'Our Scotland'
Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 348
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 6:37 am Post subject: |
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Does anyone really think this has a place in modern day Scotland? You never read of these things happening in England or Wales, It's embarrasing to the Scottish nation..
They better not come near Fundee anytime soon |
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SLG
Born Again..........and still Scottish!
Joined: 16 Sep 2005
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 10:18 am Post subject: |
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Wouldn't surprise me if they get a wee bit of trouble at this one. I might wander along  |
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George
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 11:37 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | ....whilst we may all want to see a stronger, better government in Scotland, we won't tinker with the Union to achieve it." |
The passage above says it all for me really, save the union at any cost even if that means maintaining inadequate government, how brainwashed are these people.
I hope that this parade gets as much coverage as possible. It can't but help the independence cause by this bunch stepping into the arena. |
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garye
Gaining a Reputation........
Joined: 24 May 2006
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| Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 12:02 am Post subject: |
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| SLG wrote: | Wonder how many of these people will even be coming from Edinburgh though. Not many I would have thought.
Still I don't mind this, I think all it does is paint Unionism into a outdated Orange/Norther Ireland style corner. At the same time, the independence movement is only gaining a broader appeal. |
I agree. If ever there was a backward looking entrenched bunch of ridiculous political caricatures it the Tories. s**t,meant to say the OO. This type of thing should be filmed and broadcast prior to May 3rd, just to let every household in Scotland take a good solid look at what the Union represents.
Oh how I can't wait till post independence when we can gut ourselves laughing at these numpties. |
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Aventinian
'Our Scotland' Fossil
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| Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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| garye wrote: | | I agree. If ever there was a backward looking entrenched bunch of ridiculous political caricatures it the Tories. |
I wish the Scottish Tory front bench had enough personality to be caricatured.
| Quote: | | s**t,meant to say the OO. This type of thing should be filmed and broadcast prior to May 3rd, just to let every household in Scotland take a good solid look at what the Union represents. |
If you mean the Union representing freedom of speech and assembly, then yes - I'll grant you that. Otherwise I'd like to know in what way the Union can possibly be said to 'represent' the Orange Order any more than any other assembling of its citizenry.
Or was that perhaps just guff.
One might point out if one was feeling a bit triumphalist, one may point out that a very narrow spectrum of Unionism managed to get 12,000 out to march - while the Nationalists only managed to get 800 together, with far more planning, and even including their 'undesirables'.
Personally I've never been much in support of the Orange Order, but I do feel that a lot of the ill-will directed towards them is very much snobbery. When the OO was first seriously formed in Scotland, and still today, an overwhelming sum of its membership were poor Irish protestant immigrants. That's why they were treated with contempt back in the 50s and thereabouts, and I think a lot of people have simply been brought up with that attitude.
I don't imagine any more OO members hate Catholics than SNP members hate English people. I've certainly never seen any evidence to suggest that.
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'Socialists cry "Power to the people", and raise the clenched fist as they say it. We all know what they really mean—power over people, power to the State.' |
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George
This is Ma' Life!
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| Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Aventinian wrote: |
One might point out if one was feeling a bit triumphalist, one may point out that a very narrow spectrum of Unionism managed to get 12,000 out to march - while the Nationalists only managed to get 800 together, with far more planning, and even including their 'undesirables'. |
An interesting point but is what you imply actually valid?
On the one hand we have a historic organisation brought about partly through conflict in Ireland. For generations many people will have been indoctrinated into these organisations from a very young age and further brainwashed through symbolism and ceremony. This will result in a loyalty and feeling of belonging similar to that of religion.....it transcends logic. It is not difficult to appreciate that if this relatively small number of people see one of the core elements of their 'belief' under threat then gathering them together at an already established calender event is straightforward.
The independence first movement has no such history or traditions....nor communication networks. There are no people within the establishment with links or sympathies towards it's aim. I wait with interest to see how many participate in the march next week......anything around 1500 would impress me.
| Aventinian wrote: |
I don't imagine any more OO members hate Catholics than SNP members hate English people. I've certainly never seen any evidence to suggest that. |
Aventinian, if you are really after mature debate then you have to do better than "SNP members hate English people". As far as the OO are concerned then, in my opinion, an antipathy towards the Roman Catholic faith is certainly evident. |
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Aventinian
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| Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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| George wrote: | | The passage above says it all for me really, save the union at any cost even if that means maintaining inadequate government, how brainwashed are these people. |
Isn't that your position re: Scottish independence - ie, let it happen, even if it did cause some economic damage?
Anyway, in a flexible Union which evolves and is quick to react, there is no way that Scotland could be any better governed by independence. Scottish independence, by definition, is closing the door on one layer of government which could more efficiently govern on certain matters.
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SLG
Born Again..........and still Scottish!
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| Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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But we don't have a flexible Union.
Also, regarding the OO, was it not an OO spokesperson who said that the OO would take up arms to prevent independence? |
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George
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| Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Aventinian wrote: | | George wrote: | | The passage above says it all for me really, save the union at any cost even if that means maintaining inadequate government, how brainwashed are these people. |
Isn't that your position re: Scottish independence - ie, let it happen, even if it did cause some economic damage? |
No, I was a Labour voter for many years.......when Major won his election I was distraught. When finally Labour did win I thought that things would improve drastically. However nothing did, I still see the same lack of vision and opportunity for my son, nephews and nieces that compelled me to move to London for 11 years and subsequently work in Europe for a further 3. I have come to nationalism for pragmatic reasons, the Unionist parties do not serve Scotland well. The only alternative for me is independence........more of the same is not an option.
| Aventinian wrote: |
Anyway, in a flexible Union which evolves and is quick to react, there is no way that Scotland could be any better governed by independence.
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Yes there is.......but that is where we differ, oh and as has been pointed out we don't have a flexible union.
| Aventinian wrote: |
Scottish independence, by definition, is closing the door on one layer of government which could more efficiently govern on certain matters. |
This is not a definition of independence, this is merely your opinion. I disagree with that opinion, I know of no reason why civil servants based in scotland cannot be as efficient as those based in Westminster.......on any matter. |
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Aventinian
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| Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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| SLG wrote: | | But we don't have a flexible Union. |
Vaguely true. It really depends how the situation develops. Remembering we haven't even had the 10th birthday of devolution yet.
| Quote: | | Also, regarding the OO, was it not an OO spokesperson who said that the OO would take up arms to prevent independence? |
I don't know about spokesperson or what his role was, but yes you are quite correct.
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'Socialists cry "Power to the people", and raise the clenched fist as they say it. We all know what they really mean—power over people, power to the State.' |
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Corby Boy
'Our Scotland' = 2nd Job!
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 8:22 am Post subject: |
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Did this go off peacefully?
You got to remember that these people fought the Siege of Derry, and are still in siege mode now over 300 years later.
They fell threatened so they're gonna do this.
But at the end of the day the future's bright the future's NOT orange! |
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Aventinian
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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I think you're thinking of the Apprentice Boys, a quick bit of googling indicates that the Orange Order weren't established until over one hundred years after that event.
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'Socialists cry "Power to the people", and raise the clenched fist as they say it. We all know what they really mean—power over people, power to the State.' |
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Corby Boy
'Our Scotland' = 2nd Job!
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| Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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May be so, but they are now linked to Apprentice Boys today in that there Raison D'etre is more or less the same - staunch Protestantism and Unionism as it relates to NI.
My point is around their mentality, all OO men I have met, have displayed this 'siege mentality' trait. |
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Aventinian
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| Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Corby Boy wrote: | | May be so, but they are now linked to Apprentice Boys today in that there Raison D'etre is more or less the same - staunch Protestantism and Unionism as it relates to NI. |
Are you 'linked' with everyone remotely subscribing to your ideology? In that case, are the SNP linked to the Nazi Party? 
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