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parkhead_rfb · Getting on a bit! Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974

what if a scenario were to occur where the vast majority of scotland wanted independence but say there was a majority against it in say the south east of the country. what would your reactions be of this part of the country were partitioned leaving for example 1/3 there who were pro nationalist but they were forced to remain a part of britain due to this artifical seperation?

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"our revenge will be the laughter of our children" bobby sands MP

"there is no equality in a society that stands upon the political and economic bog, if only the strongest make it good or survive" bobby sands MP

kalashnikov · No Longer a Wean Joined: 17 Sep 2005 Posts: 93

I would not be prepared to support the formation of any “independent” capitalist Scotland. I believe it diverts us away from the real problems of society, capitalism, imperialism, the class system and all its ills. These problems have no nationality, and I don’t care which nationality the person exploiting me is.

Some people refer to other Scots as “us”, well people Tom Hunter and Sean Connery are Scottish and they have nothing in common with the likes of myself. I have little time for tartan tory types who think that when we “break with the English” all problems will be solved, the only way to smash the imperialist British Empire is through class unity with our English and Welsh brothers and sisters.
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If you remove the English army to-morrow and hoist the green flag over Dublin Castle, unless you set about the organisation of the Socialist Republic your efforts would be in vain. - James Connolly

trueblue · Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 10:14 pm Post subject:

Abieuan · Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 10:16 pm Post subject:

Parkheid_rfb Wrote:

trueblue · Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 10:20 pm Post subject:

he does indeed write a lot of pish.

what is an english settler? a new breed of gun dog?
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**sig. edited by admin

parkhead_rfb · Getting on a bit! Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974

what if it were only two thirds of the south east though should we split scotland up to appease that minority? what if scottish nationalists then went on to be discriminated against in this partitioned part of scotland?
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"our revenge will be the laughter of our children" bobby sands MP

"there is no equality in a society that stands upon the political and economic bog, if only the strongest make it good or survive" bobby sands MP

Abieuan · Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 10:45 pm Post subject:

English settlers? Well they are good meaning people who want a better life in Scotland.
However, when too many of them move into one rural area they become a dominant culture, and those with strong Scottish accents are soon looked on as cute, rustic types, and speach and society will have changed in twenty years time.

trueblue · Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 10:49 pm Post subject:

thetimeisnow · No Longer a Wean Joined: 15 Sep 2005 Posts: 91

kalashnikov · No Longer a Wean Joined: 17 Sep 2005 Posts: 93

Firstly, to state that someone has written “a load of pish” is hardly beneficial for any good discussion forum, so I’d advise you to cut that out and if you have any disagreements with my opinions you have the opportunity to state why without being insulting.

azzuri · 'Our Scotland' Fossil Joined: 12 Sep 2005 Posts: 3792

don't you think though that you'd have more of a voice in an independent scotland than the current setup.

Scotland as a whole has always been more receptive to socialism than the rest of the UK - so don't you think you have more of a chance of getting your way through independence
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"Every single person on this planet is unique. Just like everyone else..." - Random Guy in Edinburgh Pub

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parkhead_rfb · Getting on a bit! Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974

what are you basing that on rs? the fact that scotland votes for labour in high numbers? hardly socialism now is it. yes scotland may be slightly more receptive to socialism than england but thats not really saying much now is it.
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"our revenge will be the laughter of our children" bobby sands MP

"there is no equality in a society that stands upon the political and economic bog, if only the strongest make it good or survive" bobby sands MP

azzuri · 'Our Scotland' Fossil Joined: 12 Sep 2005 Posts: 3792

yes - the fact that people in scotland still vote for labour thinking that they will stand up for the working man - but don't seem to realise labour are anything but a socialist, redistribution of wealth party.

also the fact that we have some SSP MSPs in the Scottish Parliament.

also the fact that we have a much lower average income than those in England - people on lower pay tend to be more receptive to socialism than those paying tax in the higher brackets.
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"Every single person on this planet is unique. Just like everyone else..." - Random Guy in Edinburgh Pub

Possibly the funniest site in the world, 'The Daily Mash' - http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/

parkhead_rfb · Getting on a bit! Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974

the ssp msps are more to do with the system of voting than anything else though. unfortunately the ssp only get what is it about 2% of votes if even that. but then what do you expect when you get more discussion about the x factor than politics.
_________________
"our revenge will be the laughter of our children" bobby sands MP

"there is no equality in a society that stands upon the political and economic bog, if only the strongest make it good or survive" bobby sands MP

azzuri · 'Our Scotland' Fossil Joined: 12 Sep 2005 Posts: 3792

yes i'd agree that this is a problem - but part of this is because of political parties themselves.

People lost interest in UK politics as a whole when the big three (Lib Dems, Tories, Labour) merged into one. All three subscribe to much the same policies now in this centre politics rubbish. Thats why most of their time is spent discrediting individuals of other parties rather than pushing their own policies.
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"Every single person on this planet is unique. Just like everyone else..." - Random Guy in Edinburgh Pub

Possibly the funniest site in the world, 'The Daily Mash' - http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/

Rinty · Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 12:21 am Post subject: eh?

Rinty · Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 12:27 am Post subject: answer

Sorry rfb, i forgot the part about your question.

I would hope a referendum on this subject would be counted on a national basis, just as most of our democractic elections are. If the majority of scots said independence then that is what should happen, just as when the majority of the UK vote tory, it didn't matter that Scotland and Wales or Yorkshire didn't, the Tories were still the govt in those places. Just as when Orkney and Shetland were the only part of Scotland to vote against joining the EEC.

I wouldn't go to war over it though, at least not unless I was attacked. I have to say though rfb that if had happened 80 years ago and you were asking me if I would still demand that they be part of Scotland then the answer would probably be NO, not if they don't want to be.

parkhead_rfb · Getting on a bit! Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974

was there percentage at westminster lower than that?

i would certainly imagine that th reality were this to happen would see scottish nationalists up in arms.
_________________
"our revenge will be the laughter of our children" bobby sands MP

"there is no equality in a society that stands upon the political and economic bog, if only the strongest make it good or survive" bobby sands MP

azzuri · 'Our Scotland' Fossil Joined: 12 Sep 2005 Posts: 3792

I think the percentage at westminster was lower than this - however this may be due to the way we vote - it seems to be totally different in a Westminster Election to that in a Holyrood Election.
_________________
"Every single person on this planet is unique. Just like everyone else..." - Random Guy in Edinburgh Pub

Possibly the funniest site in the world, 'The Daily Mash' - http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/

azzuri · 'Our Scotland' Fossil Joined: 12 Sep 2005 Posts: 3792

let me ask you something about this scenario parkhead -

are these people in the south east a majority religion, different from those in other parts of Scotland?

if so - have there been religious tensions between the two groups of people in differing religions for hundreds of years?

do these people in the south east see themselves as having a distinct culture, different from that of other scots?
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"Every single person on this planet is unique. Just like everyone else..." - Random Guy in Edinburgh Pub

Possibly the funniest site in the world, 'The Daily Mash' - http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/