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Aventinian
'Our Scotland' Fossil
Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 4249
Location: Broadcasting From An Anonymous Location Within the United Kingdom.
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 Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 3:40 am Post subject: |
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| parkhead_rfb wrote: | | so is it merely a coincidence that those who are born into middle and upper class families are more likely to go to university, get better jobs etc where as those who are born into working class families are less likely to do so? are the working classes just born to be lazy? is it in the genes? |
We all have to overcome the poor hands which life occasionally deals us in order to get anywhere in life.
Anyway, there seems to be an assumption here that someone's happiness can be measured in pounds and pence. It's untrue. Not everyone wants to ascend the economic ladder and deal with the associated stress and responsibility that brings. Perhaps that mindset is why working class children are less inclined to make the most of their educational opportunities - and simply because that mindset has come about by their upbringing, it does not lessen the fact that it is their decision.
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Gypsum_Fantastic
On A Journey (500 Miles)
Joined: 15 Dec 2005
Posts: 28
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| Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 9:56 am Post subject: |
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| parkhead_rfb wrote: | | so is it merely a coincidence that those who are born into middle and upper class families are more likely to go to university, get better jobs etc where as those who are born into working class families are less likely to do so? are the working classes just born to be lazy? is it in the genes? |
It's to do with the cultural outlook amongst these groups. Academic achievement is mysteriously frowned upon in lots of working class circles - to be intelligent in a slum in Scotland must be amongst one of the worst fates life can deal you. Social ambition is also frowned upon - the 'ah kent his faither' attitude.
There are no invisible barriers to social mobility except those created within the group itself. I don't believe the working class are inherently lazy but there is an unhealthy, cynical, why bother attitude that is sadly all too prevalent in parts of Scotland.
| parkhead_rfb wrote: | | Its also shown that ethnic groups are more likely to offend than others, is that in the genes also? |
Some ethnic groups commit more crimes than others and again this is to do with the prevailing Weltanschuung in those groups. If you've ever been treated on the NHS, the chances you will come across an Indian doctor. Academic achievement amongst Indians is incredibly high - the aspiration in this group is to be educated professionals. By contrast, certain groups do seem to be involved in more trouble than others - Jamaicans, for example. Amongst this group there seems to be tendency to have gangsters as role models and for violence and crime to be glamourised and accepted as a legitimate career path.
The truth is somewhere in the group's Weltanschuung.
Working class culture in this country used to be about dignity, self-improvement and good manners. Does anyone still believe this is the case? Now we have the behaviour of neds defended by socialists (what would Mr Orwell say?) as legitimate working class behaviour. Truly, we are betrayed by the very people that are meant to defend us. |
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parkhead_rfb
Getting on a bit!
Joined: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 1974
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| Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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the reason that you will come across an indian doctor is that the british cherry pick these types of people from other developing nations rather than rearing our own.
To say that working class people dont want social mobility is also non sense. The reason that less working class people will make it into further education is that in general they will attend schools that have to deal with more social problems and so their education is impaired because of this. In scotland we use a comprehensive system where school places are allocated due to geography thus ensuring that more often than not schools will be segregated in socio economic terms and you then get 'sinking schools'. Many prominent academics that have looked into education such as Stephen Ball and Clyde Chitty have argued that education is used by the middle and upper classes to reproduce their social advantage.
you also stated that crime levels were not like this in the 40's and 50's which is ironically the time when larger government intervention in society had its most public support. you are of coure totally against large government intervention.
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"our revenge will be the laughter of our children" bobby sands MP
"there is no equality in a society that stands upon the political and economic bog, if only the strongest make it good or survive" bobby sands MP |
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