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at the edge · Finding Ma' Way Joined: 09 Dec 2005 Posts: 2

simple answer is not to refer to them as unionist, but call them what they are British Nationalist

Aventinian · Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:06 pm Post subject:

SLG · Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 11:26 pm Post subject:

Aventinian · Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 3:29 am Post subject:

Niall · Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 12:11 pm Post subject:

Niall · Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 10:25 am Post subject:

Aventinian, I am still waiting.........
Niall.
_________________
Cha deanar duine glic ach air a chosd fheinn.

SLG · Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 5:38 pm Post subject:

I'm sure he's thinking hard about his answer and will get back to you when he's ready Niall. I'm lookng forward to his response though.

Niall · Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 4:39 pm Post subject:

A Charaid.
Don't hold your breath too long though....... I doubt very much if he will return, he's probably done some research and realised he's put a size 15 boot in his mouth.

'S Mise
Niall
_________________
Cha deanar duine glic ach air a chosd fheinn.

Aventinian · Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 2:27 am Post subject:

Ne’er before have I witnessed a group of people who rely more upon collective wishful thinking than the Scots nationalists…

Shockingly enough, towards the end of December, some of us have better things to do than argue about the Jacobite Risings on internet forums. Just to inform you in advance, I shall doubtless be absent from the computer on the 31st of this month and for the next few days following, for despite the best efforts of the “Scottish Executive” I shall be binge drinking and probably breaking a good few laws in the company of that alcoholic band of libertines that I call my friends and loved ones.

Now that we have dispensed with that public announcement, let us continue to your question. Despite what you may think, the actions on a battlefield will very rarely constitute genocide. While it may well be correct that a certain degree of cruelty was used to quell that sedition, you’ll be hard pressed to find a war where the established rules of engagement were followed to the letter. This was, by no one’s measure, genocide – or even anywhere close.

Niall · Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 5:44 pm Post subject:

Aventian a charaid.

So you have decided to skate round my question. What Cumberland did in the Highlands has long been recognised as GENOCIDE. Hundreds of thousands of Gaels (men Women and children )were either murdered or sold into slavery in the colonies. In those days Gaelic speaking Irish, Scots and Cymric speaking Welsh people were depicted in popular cartoons as Monkeys dressed up in human clothes.

This disparaging attitude was similar to the Nazi's depicting Jews as rats and sub-humans which inevitably led to 'The Final Solution.' This attitude also led to the British Government carrying out an act of genocide in Ireland by deliberately starving the Irish Gaels to death!

The revisionist History books have all blamed the Potato blight. I am not holding the present day population of England responsible or guilty of the crimes their past leaders committed, but rather to show the real dangers of regarding other races and Cultures as inferior (Sub Human) and therefore fit only for servitude or extinction.

Potato blight, 'phytophthora infestans', did spread from America to Europe in 1844, to England and then Ireland in 1845 but it didn't cause famine anywhere. Ireland did not starve for potatoes; it starved for food.

Ireland starved because its food, from 40 to 70 shiploads per day, was requisitioned without compensation at gunpoint by 12,000 British constables reinforced by the British militry, Warships, Excise vessels, Coast Guard and by 200,000 British soldiers (100,000 at any given moment) Thus, Britain seized from Ireland's producers tens of millions of head of livestock; tens of millions of tons of flour, grains, meat, poultry & dairy products; enough to sustain 18 million persons.

A typical example of this: In Belmullet, Co. Mayo the mission of 151 soldiers of the 49th Regiment was to guard a few tons of meal from the hands of the starving Townsfolk; its population falling from 237 to 105 between 1841 and 1851. Belmullet also lost its source of fish in January, 1849, when Britain's Coast Guard arrested its fleet of enterprising fishermen ten miles at sea in the act of offloading flour from a passing ship. They were sentenced to prison and their currachs (One man Coracle type Hide boats) were confiscated and burned.

Official British intent at the time is revealed by its actions and enactment's. When the European potato crop failed in 1844 and food prices rose, The british Government ordered 46 Regiments to Ireland ready to seize Irish foodstuffs to feed their English populace and maintain their economy. When blight hit the 1845 English potato crop the food removal regiments were already in Ireland, with orders to start.

The Times editorial of September 30, 1845, warned; 'In England the two main meals of a working man's day now consists of potatoes.' England's potato-dependence was excessive; recklessly. Grossly overpopulated relative to its food supply, England faced famine unless it could import vast amounts of alternative food. But it didn't grab merely Ireland's surplus food; or enough Irish food to save England.

However It took more; for profit and to exterminate the people of Ireland. Queen Victoria's economist, Nassau Senior in a secret memorandum, expressed his fear that existing policies 'will not kill more than one million Irish in 1848 and that will scarcely be enough to do much good.' (The Great Hunger; by Cecil Woodham-Smith; p. 373 (cap. xvii; sect. 3; pp. 1; penult. sentence).

When an eyewitness urged a stop to the genocide-in-progress, Lord Trevelyan replied: 'We must not complain of what we really want to obtain.' (Ibid.; p. 369.) Trevelyan insisted that all reports of starvation were exaggerated, until 1847. He then declared it ended and refused entry to the American food relief ship Sorciére. Thomas Carlyle; influential British essayist, wrote; 'Ireland is like a half-starved rat that crosses the path of an elephant. What must the elephant do? Squelch it - by heavens - squelch it.' '

Total Annihilation'; suggested The Times leader of September 2, 1846; and in 1848 its editorialists crowed 'A Celt will soon be as rare on the banks of the Shannon as the red man on the banks of Manhattan.' The immortal Society of Friends, the 'Quakers,' did all in their power to save lives. But in 1848 in the face of years of wilful Government interference, obstruction and resistance, they finally despaired and quit, upon learning that the Crown planned to perpetuate the genocide's pretext; the British claim of 'ownership' of Irish land..

Quakers refused to facilitate the genocide by pretending it was an act of nature. In the 1870s; too late; British laws were enacted allowing the Irish to buy back the land of which Britain had robbed them. Twice-yearly payments were extracted from Ireland's farmers until that 'debt' was paid off in the 1970s.

Ireland's diet, since prehistory, has been meat, dairy products, grains, fruit and vegetables; latterly supplemented by potatoes. Central to its ancient legends are its livestock, reaping hooks, flails, querns, and grain-kilns and -mills. The many Connaught grain-kilns and -mills shown on the Irish Ordnance Survey Map of 1837-1841 operated continually prior to, during the Starvation, and subsequently after it until the 1960s when they were still working. Local farmers dried and milled their grain - not potatoes - in them, and this oatmeal and flour were seized and exported by British forces.

The 'potato famine' Big Lie was underway and already denounced by John Mitchell in his United Irishman newspaper in 1847 (he was soon sent in chains to a Tasmanian death camp; but escaped). Fifty years later G.B. Shaw wrote in Man and Superman: 'Malone: 'My father died of starvation in Ireland in the Black '47. Maybe you've heard of it?' Violet: 'The Famine?' Malone: (with smouldering passion) 'No, the Starvation. When a country is full of food and exporting it, there can be no Famine.' But he kept mum on the British army's role; Ireland's whole-truth-tellers don't receive preferences.

To date, the Big Lie prevails. It started in 1846 when, while the British government genocidally stripped Ireland of its abundant foodstuffs, internationally it was begging help for the 'starving Irish.' John Mitchell remonstrated; 'Many will, perhaps, be surprised to learn neither Ireland, nor anybody in Ireland ever asked alms or favours of any kind, either from England or from any other nation or people.

On the contrary, it was England herself that begged for us, asking a penny, for the love of God, to relieve the poor Irish. And further, constituting herself the almoner and agent of all that charity, she, England, took all the profit of it.' Mitchell again; 'Thus any man who had a house, no matter how wretched, was to pay the new tax; and every man was bound to have a house; for if found out of doors after sunset; and convicted of that offence, he was to be transported for fifteen years, or imprisoned for three - the court to have the discretion of adding hard labour or solitary confinement.

This law would drive the survivors of ejected people (those who did not die of hunger) into the poorhouses or to America; because, being bound to be at home after sunset, and having neither house nor home, they would be all in the absolute power of the police, and in continual peril of transportation to the colonies (Australian slave labour camps).

By another act of parliament the police force was increased, and taken more immediately into the service of the Crown; the Irish counties were in part relieved from their pay; and they became, in all senses, a portion of the regular army. They amounted to twelve thousand chosen men, well armed and drilled. The police were always at the command of sheriffs for executing ejectments; and if they were not in sufficient force, troops of the line could be had from the nearest garrison.

No wonder that the London Times, within less than three years after, was enabled to say; 'Law has ridden roughshod through Ireland, it has been taught with bayonet, and interpreted with ruin. Townships levelled with the ground, straggling columns of exiles, workhouses multiplied, and still crowded, express the determination of the legislature to remove Ireland from its slovenly old barbarism, and to plant the institutions of this more civilized land' (meaning England!)' Mitchell also wrote; 'Steadily, but surely, the 'Government' was working out its calculation; and the produce anticipated by 'political circles' was likely to come out about September (of 1847), in round numbers - two millions of Irish corpses.' (History of Ireland; by John Mitchell; p. 204 )

Toll of Irish Holocaust.

The 1841 census of Ireland revealed a population of 10,897,449. This figure includes the correction factor established by that year's official partial recount. When, between 1779 and 1841, the U.S. population increased by 640 per cent, and England's is estimated to have increased, despite massive emigration to its colonies, by 100 per cent, it is generally accepted that Ireland's population increase was 172% The average annual component of this 172% increase is x in the formula (1+ x)62 = 1 + 172%; thus 0.0163, or 1.63%. Accepting that this 1.63% rate of annual population increase continued until mid-1846 (one human gestation after the late-1845 beginning of removal of Ireland's food), the 1846 population was 11,815,011.

Assuming that rate continued, the population in 1851, Without the starvation, would have been approximately 12,809,841. However; the 1851 census recorded a population of 6,552,385; thus there was a 'disappearance' of 6,257,456. This population-loss figure of 6,257,456 is scarcely susceptible to significant challenge, being derived directly from the British government's own censuses for Ireland. It is reasonable to assume that the rigor established in the recount of 1841 became the standard for the 1851 census; so that any residual undercount would be systemic, affecting 1841 and 1851 proportionately (and, if known, would increase the murder total). These 6,257,456 include roughly 1,000,000 who successfully fled into exile and another 100,000 unborn between 1846 and 1851 due to malnutrition-induced infertility. Of the 100,000 who fled to Canada in 1847, only 60,000 were still alive one month after landing. Among the 40,000 dead was Henry Ford's father's mother who died en route from Cork or in quarantine on Quebec's Grosse Ile.

Thus; though from 1845 through 1850, 6,257,456 'disappeared,' the number murdered is approximately 1.1 million fewer; i.e., 5.16 millions. Consequently; if Britain's census figures for Ireland are correct the British government murdered approximately 5.16 million Irish men, women and children; making it the Irish Holocaust. This number, 5.16 million, exceeds the high end of the range (4.2 to 5.1m) of serious estimates of the number of Jews murdered by Nazis.

The least reliable component of the foregoing arithmetic is the number assumed to have successfully fled. If the flee'rs who survived prove to number, say, 900,000 instead of 1,000,000, the murder count will have to be corrected from 5.16 to 5.26 millions. This amount of adjustment, up or down, of the 5.16 millions murdered is determinable by sensitive review of the immigration records of the U.S., Canada, Argentina, and Australia; and of government records on the Irish who fled to Britain at the time. Economists and historians are disqualified if their published work on the events of 1845-1850 covers up the British army's central role therein. Such individuals lack the standing to participate in this truth-quest.

The Irish are not guilty of dissimulation. Though many Holocaust Irish, like many, say, Auschwitz Jews, took deadly advantage of their own weakest, neither the Irish nor Jewish communities had hand or part in the conceiving and planning of the genocide's from London and Berlin; respectively.

Now you know the truth, truth your British revisionist historians will Not tell you. try to be less arrogant in future.

Saoir Alba a nis!
Niall.
_________________
Cha deanar duine glic ach air a chosd fheinn.

azzuri · 'Our Scotland' Fossil Joined: 12 Sep 2005 Posts: 3777

Aventinian - your posts are a complete joke. When will you start posting facts rather than opinions?

They are filled with, "I think", "I believe", "personally", "I prefer" etc.

For your opinions to be taken seriously you'll have to come up with something concrete.

Like New Labour, you'd rather attack "Scottish Nationalists" as individuals, rather than the facts and figures they use, why is that? Your quote below says it all,

Niall · Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 12:36 pm Post subject:

Aventian a charaid.
Here are a couple of snippets from Scotland on Sunday to think about:
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http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/letters.cfm?id=1762006

Never forget the 'potato famine'

OLIVER Tobin Rice of County Wexford should be congratulated for his very informative letter (18 December) about the many evils committed around the world by the British colonialist; however, he failed to mention one of the greatest evils perpetrated by these colonialists on his own doorstep, which happened during the potato blight of 1845-48.

There were potato blights in the US and all over Europe at the time, but only in Ireland did people die of starvation. Many people, even in Ireland, refer, wrongly, to the period as the "Irish potato famine" when it should more properly be referred to as the "Irish holocaust". The Irish did not starve from lack of potatoes, they starved for the lack of "food".

There were over 70 British food-removal regiments based all over Ireland, while British excise steamers, coastguards and warships sailed close to Irish ports to ensure that the food was safely exported. British soldiers forcibly removed food from its starving Limerick, Clare, Kerry and Galway producers. They seized from Ireland's producers tens of millions of head of livestock; tens of millions of tons of flour, grains, meat, poultry and dairy products; enough to sustain 18 million persons.

From Cork harbour on one day in 1847 the Ajax steamed for England with 1,514 firkins of butter, 102 casks of pork, 44 hogsheads of whisky, 844 sacks of oats, 247 sacks of wheat, 106 bales of bacon, 13 casks of hams, 145 casks of porter, 12 sacks of fodder, 28 bales of feathers, eight sacks of lard, 296 boxes of eggs, 30 head of cattle, 90 pigs, 220 lambs and 34 calves, and 69 miscellaneous packages.

Not only were the Irish starved of food then, they are starved of their history today - no Irish person ought ever refer to the Irish holocaust as a famine. I am reluctant to make comparisons, but a larger percentage of the Irish population died as a result of the "Irish holocaust" than Jews as a result of the Holocaust during World War II.

William Burns, South Queensferry

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http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=1112006

CAPTAIN CAROLINE SCOTT

Persecutor of Gaels, 18th Century

Although he was honoured at the time as a true gentleman, as an officer in the Hanoverian army Scott was responsible for some of the most notorious atrocities in the persecution of the Gaelic people following the Battle of Culloden in 1745.

In the following years as one of the Duke of Cumberland's officers he caused the deaths of countless Scots in the Highlands.

"There is little doubt that he was psychologically imbalanced," said Devine. "There was a psychopathic tendency in his mentality."

Professor Allan Macinnes, of Aberdeen University, and author of Clanship, Commerce and The House of Stuart, said: "Having instigated and encouraged genocide, Cumberland largely left this unsavoury task to enthusiastic underlings.

"His compatriots commanded psychotic Lowlanders like Captain Caroline Scott to run amok on land."

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Are you now prepared to accept that your beloved British state committed acts of Genocide? Or will you merely stick your head in the sand and expose your thinking parts to the scrutiny of the world.

Saoir Alba a nis!
Niall.
_________________
Cha deanar duine glic ach air a chosd fheinn.

Shadowman · No Longer a Wean Joined: 02 Jan 2006 Posts: 94

azzuri · 'Our Scotland' Fossil Joined: 12 Sep 2005 Posts: 3777

Shadowman · No Longer a Wean Joined: 02 Jan 2006 Posts: 94

SLG · Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:17 pm Post subject:

Shadowman · No Longer a Wean Joined: 02 Jan 2006 Posts: 94

Aventinian · Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 9:30 pm Post subject:

Maybe they'd spend all their 'defence' money putting down insurgency.

After all, no bloody Scottish Republic's officials would be getting up MY driveway without the aid of a tank.

SLG · Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 9:46 pm Post subject: