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| Do you feel as though we are closer to Scottish Indepdence than ever before? |
| Yes |
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66% |
[ 12 ] |
| No |
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22% |
[ 4 ] |
| Not Sure |
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11% |
[ 2 ] |
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| Total Votes : 18 |
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azzuri
'Our Scotland' Fossil
Joined: 12 Sep 2005
Posts: 3771
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 Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I think you'll find that (to the shock of many) the most SNP votes come from the over 60s. Although SNP do seem to win many mock elections in schools, they don't seem to do too well in the universities and amongst the young adult population. As I recall, the Tories and Lib Dems all have larger student wings than the Nats. |
Just our of interest, do you have any sources for your claims or is it just another claim that a unionist has made without any proof?
During my time at university, I found the young Scottish Nationalists (not necessarily SNP voters) far outweighed that of those who wished that Scotland would remain as part of the UK. In a politics course, I took that as a breath of fresh air. This of course could have been tainted with lecturer political bias but we had a very balanced view taught to us which encouraged us to find out things for ourselves rather than just reading the crap you find in the modern 'media'.
| Quote: | Thus, in the ICM January 2000 poll, 47% said they would vote yes, and 43% no (in an Independence vote), with yes voters disproportionately young, working class, and Catholic. Labour voters split 44% for and 48% against Independence.
source - ICM Poll Findings, 2000 |
Also found this very interesting from the same article:
| Quote: | | 61% of young English people - said they supported the idea of a fully Independent Scotland, with 36% opposing it. |
And from the 1999 ICM Polls:
| Quote: | (b) attitudes to Independence
Support for Independence in a referendum also went the way of general opinion poll trends, with a strong showing up to January 1999, and thereafter a preference for the status quo.Support for Independence consistently came from young people (18-34), and from Catholics, while support from semi- and unskilled workers shifted away as the Labour party made it more of an issue in the campaign ('Divorce is expensive'). A poll in early April suggested that voters were beginning to judge as negative the economic effects of Independence, with 18% saying they and their families would be better off, 36% that it would make no difference, and 33% that they would be worse off. In the blockbuster poll for The Herald in mid-April, System Three found that 50% thought Independence would never happen, while 26% thought that it would occur within 10 years. An ICM poll for The Guardian, however, carried out in mid-April 1999, indicated that support for Scottish Independence had risen across Britain in general from 39% in 1997 to 53% in 1999. Well over 60% also think that Scotland will become independent within 10 years. |
Your arguments hold very little substance for me as you are posting from a biased, outdated opinion which provides no hard facts whatsoever.
_________________
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parkhead_rfb
Getting on a bit!
Joined: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 1974
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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i was always under the impression that the tories had the highest average member age, i think its something like 60?
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"our revenge will be the laughter of our children" bobby sands MP
"there is no equality in a society that stands upon the political and economic bog, if only the strongest make it good or survive" bobby sands MP |
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Nithsdale Nat
Finding Ma' Way
Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 12
Location: Nithsdale
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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| parkhead_rfb wrote: | | i was always under the impression that the tories had the highest average member age, i think its something like 60? |
Thats true although the other parties are catching up. Party political membership is increasingly something that only older people are involved in. The one exception to this would probably be the SSP, who have a small membership but a large proportion of younger members.
The Tories probably have slightly more student members than Labour, the SNP would be third and then the Lib Dems. Although as the Tories only have 400 it shows the lack of interest in party politics amongst Scottish students! |
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Rinty
Ready For Afterlife!
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 2538
Location: SW Scotland
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 4:06 pm Post subject: the tories |
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The tories are claiming 400 in universities. They will have far more withint the young farmers community. I would make a guesstimate of the SSP having about 500-600 young members it might be more than that.
I take it we are talking about under-25?
I do a lot of work with groups of teenagers and my experience is that the SNP are the most popular party among young people. In fact, in one programme we actually do an opinion poll and the SNP win every time, Labour are 2nd, the SSP and Lib Dems are about the same and the tories and the greens get little if any support. I work mainly in traditional Labour areas though and the picture would be different across the country. I've seen others where the SSP and Lib Dems beat Labour but it is usually the SNP who win convincingly.
The problem for the SNP is that that few, if any, are active and the local branches are filled with people who do little and are older, which maybe puts young people off getting involved. The Tories and the SSP have a higher percentage of their young supporters being actively involved, in my opinion. |
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Nithsdale Nat
Finding Ma' Way
Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 12
Location: Nithsdale
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah I would use under 25 as the definition of young - which means I'll be old next birthday!
Membership is important but so is the %age of those who are 'activists'. This is where I think leadership comes in where they can enthuse the membership to get more actively involved.
Its also true that popular local candidates often get friends or family involved so its hard to put a figure on activist numbers.
A problem for all parties is that activists tend to be in safe areas (for us we have a lot of members in North Tayside, Bannff & Moray) and given the size of Scotland its difficult to get activists to the places that really matter i.e Galloway, Govan etc. |
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Shadowman
No Longer a Wean
Joined: 02 Jan 2006
Posts: 94
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| Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 9:33 pm Post subject: Re: the tories |
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| Rinty wrote: |
I do a lot of work with groups of teenagers and my experience is that the SNP are the most popular party among young people. In fact, in one programme we actually do an opinion poll and the SNP win every time, Labour are 2nd, the SSP and Lib Dems are about the same and the tories and the greens get little if any support. I work mainly in traditional Labour areas though and the picture would be different across the country. I've seen others where the SSP and Lib Dems beat Labour but it is usually the SNP who win convincingly.
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The Green Party or Lib Dems often win mock elections in schools throughout the UK: it's when people start feeling the impact of government that the start to vote for parties that will change it (either Tory or Labour). Because young people are unencumbered by this, they are more likely to vote ideologically or on an emotional basis. |
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Rinty
Ready For Afterlife!
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 2538
Location: SW Scotland
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| Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 10:08 pm Post subject: g |
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| Quote: | | The Green Party or Lib Dems often win mock elections in schools throughout the UK |
Maybe in England but my experience informs me that the SNP usually win movk elections in Scotland, occasionally the SSP or Labour but I have yet to see a mock election won by the Lib Dems in Scotland, and I've been involved with a few.
| Quote: | | it's when people start feeling the impact of government that the start to vote for parties that will change it (either Tory or Labour). Because young people are unencumbered by this, they are more likely to vote ideologically or on an emotional basis. |
I totally disagree with this generalisation of young people. There is far more obvious reasons why mock election results differ from "adult" elections. The main one is turnout. What you will find is that the cynicism that accompanies support for fringe parties in the young, manifests itself as a low turn out at elections when they are aged. The percentage of people voting for Labour or Tory might not differ much at all thorugh the age groups, its just that those who support SSP or SNP when they are young are often the same people that see politics in general as something that they have little interest in or that they have no influence over. A mock election is a captive audience and therefore has a high if not total turnout. |
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azzuri
'Our Scotland' Fossil
Joined: 12 Sep 2005
Posts: 3771
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| Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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I agree about voter turnout.
Older voters who tend to support Scottish Independence in lower numbers than young people are far more likely to go out and actually vote. Whether postal voting and in the future 'virtual' or internet voting affects this long term remains to be seen.
This however will become less of an issue as the older generation, and I hate to use this phrase, 'die out' leaving more and more pro-independence voters.
_________________
"Every single person on this planet is unique. Just like everyone else..." - Random Guy in Edinburgh Pub
Possibly the funniest site in the world, 'The Daily Mash' - http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/ |
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Shadowman
No Longer a Wean
Joined: 02 Jan 2006
Posts: 94
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| Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:54 am Post subject: Re: g |
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| Rinty wrote: | | Quote: | | The Green Party or Lib Dems often win mock elections in schools throughout the UK |
Maybe in England but my experience informs me that the SNP usually win movk elections in Scotland, occasionally the SSP or Labour but I have yet to see a mock election won by the Lib Dems in Scotland, and I've been involved with a few.
| Quote: | | it's when people start feeling the impact of government that the start to vote for parties that will change it (either Tory or Labour). Because young people are unencumbered by this, they are more likely to vote ideologically or on an emotional basis. |
I totally disagree with this generalisation of young people. There is far more obvious reasons why mock election results differ from "adult" elections. The main one is turnout. What you will find is that the cynicism that accompanies support for fringe parties in the young, manifests itself as a low turn out at elections when they are aged. The percentage of people voting for Labour or Tory might not differ much at all thorugh the age groups, its just that those who support SSP or SNP when they are young are often the same people that see politics in general as something that they have little interest in or that they have no influence over. A mock election is a captive audience and therefore has a high if not total turnout. |
Could it not be that people who tend to support the SSP or SNP when they are young go on to not support them for a reason? (ie they lose faith in their actions) |
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Rinty
Ready For Afterlife!
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 2538
Location: SW Scotland
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| Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 9:54 am Post subject: possibly |
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| Possibly, but I doubt it. I think that it is more likely that they lose faith in voting altogether. |
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SLG
Born Again..........and still Scottish!
Joined: 16 Sep 2005
Posts: 5515
Location: Dùn Eideann
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| Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm sure I've read that while Labour in London have been talking for a while about lowering the age of voting to 16 (in England 16-18 year olds are more likely to vote Labour than Tory), Scottish Labour are fighting against such moves. |
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Aventinian
'Our Scotland' Fossil
Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 4203
Location: Broadcasting From An Anonymous Location Within the United Kingdom.
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| Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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I prefer to think of it as the onset of maturity...
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mal
No Longer a Wean
Joined: 15 Sep 2005
Posts: 94
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| Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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| If we had free telly i think we could bribe the electorate into Independence,why has the SNP not thought about this before? |
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Aventinian
'Our Scotland' Fossil
Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 4203
Location: Broadcasting From An Anonymous Location Within the United Kingdom.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting theory, but the smart ones amongst us don't pay for it anyway.
You'd probably do better handing out a nice bottle of whisky to every voter as they walked into the polling station, and promise another if you won.
_________________
The resident pantomime villain.
'Socialists cry "Power to the people", and raise the clenched fist as they say it. We all know what they really mean—power over people, power to the State.' |
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SLG
Born Again..........and still Scottish!
Joined: 16 Sep 2005
Posts: 5515
Location: Dùn Eideann
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| Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Did someone from the Labour party not try tell people that they wouldn't get access the English soap operas if we became independent? |
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Aventinian
'Our Scotland' Fossil
Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 4203
Location: Broadcasting From An Anonymous Location Within the United Kingdom.
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| Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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Hehe. I can't remember if it was actually someone in the Labour Party, but yes it was suggested.
"Ah support the Union as it enables me tae watch Coronation Street oan the telly"
_________________
The resident pantomime villain.
'Socialists cry "Power to the people", and raise the clenched fist as they say it. We all know what they really mean—power over people, power to the State.' |
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