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KatetheShrew
Finding Ma' Way
Joined: 27 Jun 2007
Posts: 6
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 Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 4:01 am Post subject: Which team? CELTIC FC responds with: |
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cheers.
Last edited by KatetheShrew on Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:14 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Rinty
Ready For Afterlife!
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 2597
Location: SW Scotland
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 9:20 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | I support Killie and have done since the early 80's.
Obviously though, I'm a dirty orange b****rd that can't afford the bus/train fare to Ibrox (according the nice inclusive non threatening Celtic fans)
Judging somebody on the football team they decide to follow is something school kids do.
Anyway, I though most tims were green on the outside and red, white and blue unionists on the inside? |
Killie are no hun team but I can see where it comes from and have witnessed it at first hand. When Celtic visit Rugby Park there will always be an element of the support who are local huns who are there to support Killie against Celtic. There will also be, like every team, a group of morons in the home support, and some nasties who spend their time trying their best to offend Celtic fans (but will also do the same for Rangers fans). So when an Irish catholic visits Rugby park he/she will obviously pick up on the few are singing "billy" and not "killie" boys and will hear the anti-catholic or anti-irish abuse that is shouted by the huns, morons or nasties.
What has struck me often about Killie is in fact the reverse of what parkie says. I went a catholic secondary school in Kilmarnock for a while and when I go for a pint in the Portland before a Killie game (when celtic are playing there and the odd pres season friendly) I immediatelly notice that there is quite a high % of the killie fans there who also attended "the joes", who are there to support Killie. I would say that Killie have as large a % of local catholics in their support as any team outside of Celtic, Hibs or Albion Rovers (who apparently have the largest % of irish-catholic supporters).
Of course all Celtic fans aren't "tims" either and very few are "unionist" or ever have been. That is a hangover from the sectarian campaigning that used to go on between SNP and Labour in Lanarkshire and Glasgow and has never stood up to scrutiny. It is supposed to work like this:
1. Scotlands Irish-Catholic community predomintely support labour (just as other immigrant groups do).
2. Labour party policy is pro-UK
3. Celtic supporters consist of a high % of irish-catholics.
Therefore celtic supporters support the union.
I would estimate that about 30-40% of the Celtic support is Irish-Catholic (tim) meaning that they represent probably about 2% or less of the countrys irish-catholic population. Given that a quarter of them or more wont support Labour in general (and probably more than that as there are poltical questions re Labour in NI that will more likely cause a celtic supporter to be anti-labour than the run-of-the-mill tim). Given that a quarter or more of Labour voters actually support independence. We could be looking at at less than a quarter of the Celtic a support being pro-labour and pro-UK(or possibly even much less)
Of course you could use other figures to paint a different picture but what I am trying to say is that these things are far from clear cut.
The rest of the Celtic support who are not Tims might actually be more likely to be pro-UK than the tims!
PS
"Tim" is just the old version of "paddy". Up until the 19th century the most popular boys name in Ireland was timothy not Partick and as such irish people coming to mainland UK were referred to as "tim" or sometimes the irish version, tadh (taig).
PPS
Scots catholics are more likely to support the SNP in the North and the tories in Southern rural areas, Labour in Glasgow and the industrial belt. You will find that we have quite a high number of tory grandees in Scotland who are "old" catholic. |
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KatetheShrew
Finding Ma' Way
Joined: 27 Jun 2007
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 9:39 am Post subject: Bunch a Irish-Catholics here, sorry! |
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Cheers!
Last edited by KatetheShrew on Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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sgmillerton
3 Strikes - Banned!
Joined: 11 Aug 2007
Posts: 776
Location: bonnie scotland
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Rinty wrote: | | Quote: | I support Killie and have done since the early 80's.
Obviously though, I'm a dirty orange b****rd that can't afford the bus/train fare to Ibrox (according the nice inclusive non threatening Celtic fans)
Judging somebody on the football team they decide to follow is something school kids do.
Anyway, I though most tims were green on the outside and red, white and blue unionists on the inside? |
Killie are no hun team but I can see where it comes from and have witnessed it at first hand. When Celtic visit Rugby Park there will always be an element of the support who are local huns who are there to support Killie against Celtic. There will also be, like every team, a group of morons in the home support, and some nasties who spend their time trying their best to offend Celtic fans (but will also do the same for Rangers fans). So when an Irish catholic visits Rugby park he/she will obviously pick up on the few are singing "billy" and not "killie" boys and will hear the anti-catholic or anti-irish abuse that is shouted by the huns, morons or nasties.
What has struck me often about Killie is in fact the reverse of what parkie says. I went a catholic secondary school in Kilmarnock for a while and when I go for a pint in the Portland before a Killie game (when celtic are playing there and the odd pres season friendly) I immediatelly notice that there is quite a high % of the killie fans there who also attended "the joes", who are there to support Killie. I would say that Killie have as large a % of local catholics in their support as any team outside of Celtic, Hibs or Albion Rovers (who apparently have the largest % of irish-catholic supporters).
Of course all Celtic fans aren't "tims" either and very few are "unionist" or ever have been. That is a hangover from the sectarian campaigning that used to go on between SNP and Labour in Lanarkshire and Glasgow and has never stood up to scrutiny. It is supposed to work like this:
1. Scotlands Irish-Catholic community predomintely support labour (just as other immigrant groups do).
2. Labour party policy is pro-UK
3. Celtic supporters consist of a high % of irish-catholics.
Therefore celtic supporters support the union.
I would estimate that about 30-40% of the Celtic support is Irish-Catholic (tim) meaning that they represent probably about 2% or less of the countrys irish-catholic population. Given that a quarter of them or more wont support Labour in general (and probably more than that as there are poltical questions re Labour in NI that will more likely cause a celtic supporter to be anti-labour than the run-of-the-mill tim). Given that a quarter or more of Labour voters actually support independence. We could be looking at at less than a quarter of the Celtic a support being pro-labour and pro-UK(or possibly even much less)
Of course you could use other figures to paint a different picture but what I am trying to say is that these things are far from clear cut.
The rest of the Celtic support who are not Tims might actually be more likely to be pro-UK than the tims!
PS
"Tim" is just the old version of "paddy". Up until the 19th century the most popular boys name in Ireland was timothy not Partick and as such irish people coming to mainland UK were referred to as "tim" or sometimes the irish version, tadh (taig).
PPS
Scots catholics are more likely to support the SNP in the North and the tories in Southern rural areas, Labour in Glasgow and the industrial belt. You will find that we have quite a high number of tory grandees in Scotland who are "old" catholic. |
as killie are not a 'hun' team it would certainly explain the secterian abuse i've heard rangers fans get in kilmarnock. but as you say, with them being neutral they just like being offensive to both sides of the old firm, how very provincial of them. double sided bigots, just what scotland needs. |
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Rinty
Ready For Afterlife!
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 2597
Location: SW Scotland
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | as killie are not a 'hun' team it would certainly explain the secterian abuse i've heard rangers fans get in kilmarnock. but as you say, with them being neutral they just like being offensive to both sides of the old firm, how very provincial of them. double sided bigots, just what scotland needs. |
But the "double sided bigots" are in a smaller minority than the one sided bigots at Ibrox and will contain an element of local Rangers/Celtic fans. And I am sure that the "nasties" I described dont see themselves as bigots but belive that they are attacking bigots by turning their own swords on them.
What sectarian abuse did you hear rangers fans getting? |
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sgmillerton
3 Strikes - Banned!
Joined: 11 Aug 2007
Posts: 776
Location: bonnie scotland
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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| theusual stuff about masons and orangemen with some queen stuff thrown in. not that i give a f**k mind you. |
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parkhead_rfb
Getting on a bit!
Joined: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 1974
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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| frank rizzo wrote: | I support Killie and have done since the early 80's.
Obviously though, I'm a dirty orange b****rd that can't afford the bus/train fare to Ibrox (according the nice inclusive non threatening Celtic fans)
Judging somebody on the football team they decide to follow is something school kids do.
Anyway, I though most tims were green on the outside and red, white and blue unionists on the inside? |
when did i call anyone a dirty orange b****rd?
if you also notice i had a at the end of my post and i knew azzuri would bite, which he did in spectacular form.
but they do say every joke has a grain of truth and i have certainly heard sectarian abuse at grounds like rugby park. kilmarnock, motherwell and hearts i would say are high offenders in terms of sectarian abuse and thats from personal experience of being around these fans.
what genuinely pisses me of is the fans of these clubs have the cheek to wag the finger at celtic and try and portay themselves as "family clubs"when its not the case.
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"our revenge will be the laughter of our children" bobby sands MP
"there is no equality in a society that stands upon the political and economic bog, if only the strongest make it good or survive" bobby sands MP |
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sgmillerton
3 Strikes - Banned!
Joined: 11 Aug 2007
Posts: 776
Location: bonnie scotland
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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| parkhead_rfb wrote: | | frank rizzo wrote: | I support Killie and have done since the early 80's.
Obviously though, I'm a dirty orange b****rd that can't afford the bus/train fare to Ibrox (according the nice inclusive non threatening Celtic fans)
Judging somebody on the football team they decide to follow is something school kids do.
Anyway, I though most tims were green on the outside and red, white and blue unionists on the inside? |
what genuinely pisses me of is the fans of these clubs have the cheek to wag the finger at celtic and try and portay themselves as "family clubs"when its not the case. |
well said sir. it is a bit of a joke when killie, motherwell or in particular hearts fans point the finger at the old firm and sit there with a smug smile on there face. just because they do not have as many fans as rangers or celtic it does not mean that them singing f**k the pope, queen or whoever and sing about fenians or orange bastards is not any less offensive or distatseful.
as a hibs fan i think hearts fans are the worst of the lot but we'll put that down to rivalry................... |
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frank rizzo
Nationalist
Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 149
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="sgmillerton"][quote="parkhead_rfb"] | frank rizzo wrote: | I
well said sir. it is a bit of a joke when killie, motherwell or in particular hearts fans point the finger at the old firm and sit there with a smug smile on there face. just because they do not have as many fans as rangers or celtic it does not mean that them singing f**k the pope, queen or whoever and sing about fenians or orange bastards is not any less offensive or distatseful.
as a hibs fan i think hearts fans are the worst of the lot but we'll put that down to rivalry................... |
I'd love to know what songs we sing that includes anything about the head of either the RC Church, the Anglican Church or the Orange disOrder.
Every support has individual idiots. Christ, I've had a go at fellow Killie fans myself for shouting pish. However, to suggest there is sectarian songs at Rugby Park is nonsense.
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sgmillerton
3 Strikes - Banned!
Joined: 11 Aug 2007
Posts: 776
Location: bonnie scotland
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| Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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| so, do killie fans indulge or not indulge in secteria chants? are old firm fans making it up when they speak about being abused in a secterian manner by killie/motherwell and HEARTS fans?how deep into the sand is your head? |
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frank rizzo
Nationalist
Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 149
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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| sgmillerton wrote: | | so, do killie fans indulge or not indulge in secteria chants? are old firm fans making it up when they speak about being abused in a secterian manner by killie/motherwell and HEARTS fans?how deep into the sand is your head? |
I've already said that there will always be individuals at every club (yes that includes Hibs btw) who will shout idiotic nonsense. What I do take issue with is your accusation that there are sectarian songs/chants at my club by groups of fans.
You obviously have heard these chants so please feel free to tell me what they were and at what specific game.
As another poster said, there are actually many RC's at Killie as the town has a high percentage of Catholics (half the guys I go with went to the Joe's) and we've always encouraged the community at large to support us. When playing either Celtic or Rangers there will always be the odd Celtic/Rangers fan in our end but I really dont believe its many. If it was, our support would rise when it actually drops as some dont want to attend these games. However, we are a fitba club and nothing else.
Politically, Kilmarnock easily has the highest percentage of nationalists in the Ayrshire/Inverclyde/Dumfries areas so I certainly dont think any uber Brits would feel comfortable at our club. What I would say is that the moronic few casuals we have behave like ignorant morons. Then again what do you expect from grown men that still run around in wee gangs wearing over priced silly jackets? They dont represent the club thats for sure.
Like I said, I support Killie purely because they're my local team and I want to support the community as I believe they serve a real purpose to the area.
Anyway, Celtic and Rangers are the Margaret Thatcher of Scottish fitba.
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sgmillerton
3 Strikes - Banned!
Joined: 11 Aug 2007
Posts: 776
Location: bonnie scotland
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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| yep, thats pretty deep. |
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Corby Boy
'Our Scotland' = 2nd Job!
Joined: 12 Oct 2006
Posts: 421
Location: South of Hadrian's Wall
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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Right, all sectarian bigots from all clubs - there all as bad as each other, and I say to the Scottish Executive lets start shipping them out to Larne on the first ferry out of Stranraer, because they will clearly fit in their respective 'new homes' over there!!!
Sensible suggestion???
This whole subject is tedious.  |
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Cymro
I need ma own bl**dy forum!
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 1423
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:55 am Post subject: |
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Back to subject.
Went to watch Wrecsam first home match of the season on Satuday against Morcombe. Wrecsam won 2-1, first league win. Important for morale. Some good points in the first half when we dominated, second half too many mistakes, made them look good.
Wrecsam have been drawen against Aston Villa in the next round of the League Cup, home in Wrecsam. Might to and watch it, but bit skint and off to Riga a week after to might have to sit this one out.
Then watched the Liverpool Chelski match on Sunday on Sky. Ref was a disgrace!
Good win for Rangers too. |
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Morph
I really have nothing else to do!!!
Joined: 19 Jan 2006
Posts: 872
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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I am a Man Utd fan, have been for years, and even if the get relegated, which if they continue the way they started is a possibility, I also support Kilmarnock as my local team.
Although i know this post will cause problems with Azzuri 
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"An oppressive government is to be more feared than a tiger" |
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YLT
On A Journey (500 Miles)
Joined: 24 Aug 2007
Posts: 20
Location: Broon Sauce Belt
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sgmillerton
3 Strikes - Banned!
Joined: 11 Aug 2007
Posts: 776
Location: bonnie scotland
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| Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 10:28 am Post subject: |
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| YLT wrote: | That would be telling....
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yay. |
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sgmillerton
3 Strikes - Banned!
Joined: 11 Aug 2007
Posts: 776
Location: bonnie scotland
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| Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 10:31 am Post subject: |
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| frank rizzo wrote: | | sgmillerton wrote: | | so, do killie fans indulge or not indulge in secteria chants? are old firm fans making it up when they speak about being abused in a secterian manner by killie/motherwell and HEARTS fans?how deep into the sand is your head? |
I've already said that there will always be individuals at every club (yes that includes Hibs btw) who will shout idiotic nonsense. What I do take issue with is your accusation that there are sectarian songs/chants at my club by groups of fans.
You obviously have heard these chants so please feel free to tell me what they were and at what specific game.
As another poster said, there are actually many RC's at Killie as the town has a high percentage of Catholics (half the guys I go with went to the Joe's) and we've always encouraged the community at large to support us. When playing either Celtic or Rangers there will always be the odd Celtic/Rangers fan in our end but I really dont believe its many. If it was, our support would rise when it actually drops as some dont want to attend these games. However, we are a fitba club and nothing else.
Politically, Kilmarnock easily has the highest percentage of nationalists in the Ayrshire/Inverclyde/Dumfries areas so I certainly dont think any uber Brits would feel comfortable at our club. What I would say is that the moronic few casuals we have behave like ignorant morons. Then again what do you expect from grown men that still run around in wee gangs wearing over priced silly jackets? They dont represent the club thats for sure.
Like I said, I support Killie purely because they're my local team and I want to support the community as I believe they serve a real purpose to the area.
Anyway, Celtic and Rangers are the Margaret Thatcher of Scottish fitba. |
deluded killie fan, rangers fans in a tizzy this morning as singing and chanting yesterday about huns, orangmen and masons. celtic fans will face similar treatment when they visit rugby park. stop kidding yerself on. |
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Morph
I really have nothing else to do!!!
Joined: 19 Jan 2006
Posts: 872
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| Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 11:43 am Post subject: |
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I go to killie games, not as many as i would like to, but when i go, that includes rangers and celtic, i havent heard much chanting of that nature, as Frank Rizzo says this does not mean that some very small groups do not chant but on the whole i find killie fans dont really care about our sectarian neighbours e.g. rangers and celtic.
I also think that the abue given to these fans is significantly higher at other grounds. Killie suffer from being plastic paddys if they are playing rangers and huns without the bus pass if we are playing celtic so its not one way traffic here
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parkhead_rfb
Getting on a bit!
Joined: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 1974
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| Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Morph wrote: | I go to killie games, not as many as i would like to, but when i go, that includes rangers and celtic, i havent heard much chanting of that nature, as Frank Rizzo says this does not mean that some very small groups do not chant but on the whole i find killie fans dont really care about our sectarian neighbours e.g. rangers and celtic.
I also think that the abue given to these fans is significantly higher at other grounds. Killie suffer from being plastic paddys if they are playing rangers and huns without the bus pass if we are playing celtic so its not one way traffic here |
i wouldnt say that but then thats only because i dont think buses actually run in ayrshire.
I hear the residents of cherynobl are running a charity where they take weans from ayrshire over there to give them a break.
_________________
"our revenge will be the laughter of our children" bobby sands MP
"there is no equality in a society that stands upon the political and economic bog, if only the strongest make it good or survive" bobby sands MP |
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