Our Scotland - www.our-scotland.org

parkhead_rfb · Getting on a bit! Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974

yi wouldnt get away with this on marches anymore Very Happy

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"our revenge will be the laughter of our children" bobby sands MP

"there is no equality in a society that stands upon the political and economic bog, if only the strongest make it good or survive" bobby sands MP

Morph · Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:24 pm Post subject:

why postthis on an independance website other than to cause problems
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"An oppressive government is to be more feared than a tiger"

parkhead_rfb · Getting on a bit! Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974

Morph · Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:59 pm Post subject:

it has nothing to do with Irish or UK politics, i feel it would be better in the history section you coul d start a post in there about your bands history
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"An oppressive government is to be more feared than a tiger"

parkhead_rfb · Getting on a bit! Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974

Morph · Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:12 pm Post subject:

but it serves no discussion within an Irish political context, if this was in your history section it would be fine, i can move it if you wish?
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"An oppressive government is to be more feared than a tiger"

parkhead_rfb · Getting on a bit! Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974

Cymro · Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:37 am Post subject:

Who was Billy Reid ? What was the reason for the name change?

parkhead_rfb · Getting on a bit! Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974

Cymro · Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 12:45 pm Post subject:

Aaah right interesting thanks for that. So what was the reason why the banded opted to take his name then? Did he have links with Glasgow ? Why did you stop linking yourselves with the Provos?

parkhead_rfb · Getting on a bit! Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974

Cymro · Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 8:24 am Post subject:

fair enough. Though your last point is worrying - you don't agree with decommissioning of weapons? I can understand the Policing issue raising fears, but personally I think Sinn Fein has taken the best decision in that respect.

I'd actually be far more likely to support Sinn Fein now they are following a peaceful path and brining the PIRA with them than I would have in the past if I lived in NI.

What would your opinions be on the likes of Republican Sinn Fein then?

Shame you are unwilling to explain the decision to disband your umbrella group. Is this linked to your opinions on the change of path by the Provisional movement ?

parkhead_rfb · Getting on a bit! Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974

i have a lot of respect for republican sinn fein. they have stuck to their republican principles whatever personal and political problems that has given them. they also have a man whos republican credentials could never be doubted as their leader.

what you also have to remember about rsf is that they havent recently appeared as opposition to the GFA they have been in existence sinc 1986 when sf decided to take seats in the 26 country government. some people mistakenly think they have only appeared recently.

I disagree with their refusal to take part in elections etc but like i say i have to admire their determination.

on the arms issue i feel its just a part of a long line of values that sf have shed far too easily. at the time when those weapons were taken out of use many far more important parts of the GFA hadnt been implimented and lets also not forget the issue of loyalist gones which weirdly doesnt seem to be an issue at all.

their acceptance of policing is a joke imo and to be honest i wouldnt even call them a republican party anymore, they are turning swiflty into the Stoop Down Low Party.
_________________
"our revenge will be the laughter of our children" bobby sands MP

"there is no equality in a society that stands upon the political and economic bog, if only the strongest make it good or survive" bobby sands MP

Cymro · Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 9:01 am Post subject:

Parkie, I honestly think you are living in a fantasy world here. What in reality did an armed struggle achieve? Direct rule, suffering, negative views of republicanism, a divided society. And more importantly, the prospect of an United Ireland a far far dream.

And positives? Not that I can see.

I appreciate why Republican Sinn Fein came into existance, but in the modern Northern Ireland I see them as nothing but a fantasy party. They, like you see some romantacism in the armed struggle - Irish men standing up and fighting the might of the British State. However, they have next to no support amongst supporters of Republicanism, something Sinn Fein on the other hand do have.

Sinn Fein, far from selling out are merely reflecting the modern demands of Republicans - they don't want bombings, they don't want street fights.

I have no problem with people remembering and even being proud in past campaigns by the IRA - I found the Republican Memorials in areas like Clonnard fascinating while I was there. But, that belongs in the past now. There wheren't defeated, they've merely evolved.

Regarding Policing, had this decision been taken behind closed doors by the Sinn Fein executuve you've have a point, but again this was something supported by members, which in itself came about because of pressure by normal supporters of Republicanism. What chance does Policing in Northern Ireland have of being completely neutral if the main Republican Party don't take the opportunity to play a part in running it?

parkhead_rfb · Getting on a bit! Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974

the reason the mjority supported it is that in the run up to it being accepted and since the gfa in genral sf have been sidelining key figures who were liable to oppose certain moves and who carried sway within the party.

Groups like RSF and the IRSM also do have significant and very active membership in many areas. obviously this cant be shown in voting as they dont actually stand. many republicans then are left with no choice but no vote sf wel either that or not vote at all.

do you actually read any of RSF etc's material or are you commentating based on snippets here and there? i regularly read saiorse (the rsf paper) and the plough (the IRSM's paper).

As I have also stated on here the republican movements in the whole realised that agreement would be better than armed conflict as far back as the early 70's but the british were never ready to negotiate in any meaningful manner and instead saw any ceasefires as chances to break the IRA etc. no doubt the republican movement by and large have made changes to what they are now willing to accept but peace could have been achieved a whole lot sooner had the british government taken a sensible approach to the six counties in the first place.

on your point of who has what support you will find that at the time the border campaigns had little or no support but these men are now viewed as heroes by the republican movement and in most nationalist communities. perhaps hindsight is a woderfull thing but then the more middle class nationalists also like a little time to pass on revolutionaries.

you yourself seem that kind of chap. happy to label the ira of today terrorists but i doubt probably not so harsh on those who fought in 1916 and the campaigns afterwars when essentially they were fighting the same war. free staters are particularly guilty of this.

its not always about what support you have or how many votes sometimes people have principles and they stick to them whatever the costs to themselves. i thought we wanted more of that in politics so i wont critizise groups like rsf for it.
_________________
"our revenge will be the laughter of our children" bobby sands MP

"there is no equality in a society that stands upon the political and economic bog, if only the strongest make it good or survive" bobby sands MP

Cymro · Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 12:30 pm Post subject:

parkhead_rfb · Getting on a bit! Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974

The IRSM have actually stated they dont see an armed movement as being the correct campaign to take in todays climate. they recognise that for such a movement to suceed it needs the backing of a much wider movement and at present these circumstances dont exist. they simply havent rules out supporting an armed campaign were circumstances to change in the future.

at present they concentrate on local activism. its also extremely unfair to say they are scared to stand as it would show they have little support. groups like the IRSM also didnt stand in elections when their popularity was at its height. after the 81 hunger strikes IRSM candidates would have done very well on the back of support for michael devine and the other two INLA volunteers.

RSF have also had their policies since their inception. this isnt a new approach for them its deeply held principles they are adhering to wither that makes them popular or not.

you seem to view politics as a game where you shed your principles as long as it wins votes going by your statements in this thread. I prefer to stick to principles. I believe that the british should have no part in ireland and there should always be hostility to their presence (wither political or physical) until they are removed and i will continue to say that no matter how popular it may be. RFS and the IRSM believe the same and i admire them for that whilst not always agreeing.

I myself dont believe that the time is right now for a military campaign but that doesnt mean other policies should be sold off for votes.

the RIRA are also linked to the 32 county sovereignty committee not RSF.
_________________
"our revenge will be the laughter of our children" bobby sands MP

"there is no equality in a society that stands upon the political and economic bog, if only the strongest make it good or survive" bobby sands MP

Cymro · Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:25 am Post subject:

Not at all regarding principles. The underlining principle of Republicans would be for an United Irish Republic, how they go about that is something which evolves according to demands and circumstances. To move from a path of violence to peace isn't throwing away your principles it's adjusting your path to achieve your principles. Same goes for joining the Policing Board - the principle would be that the RUC/ PSNI where too policised, not reflective of the demography of NI etc, how they go about voicing that opinion and changing that again changes.

No party has a right to dictate to it's membership where it stands. If the majority stand for one thing they have a right to put that forward. It is then up to the public to vote on that basis. Going by the increase in support towards Sinn Fein I'd argue they are very much finding themselves reflective of public opinion within the Republican argument.

And re 32SM I should have known that, thanks for that.

parkhead_rfb · Getting on a bit! Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974

Rinty · Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:45 pm Post subject:

But by getting involved in the policing committee, Sinn Fein can influence the process that can change the police service. There is also the mammoth benefit of it not becoming an issue that halts the peace process.

I don't think that Sinn Fein had much choice and the idea that somehow a united ireland would be exempt from police chiefs playing political games or the police being a tool of the state at times is ludicrous.

Ignoring the GFA means ignoring the will of the Irish people, a central plank of self-determination.

NI has an assembly who are responsible for a police force, nationalists now have political power sharing on that assembly and on the PSNI committee.