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Rinty · Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:48 am Post subject:

"the psni is one such institution which will always serve the interests if britain in ireland."

It is the one you have chosen and the one with the obvious past, albeit under a different name. But, in essence, they are no different to the NHS in NI or any other "six county" institution.

You need to look at other situations and not take NI in isolation. What matters is that the police in NI see a balance in recruitment and retention across all communities and that, in it new context it can clean up it's act to be able to serve all the people of NI. Of course it will still be used by the state, as will the police and Nottingham, Newcastle and Edinburgh.

There is a new context for the police in NI, there is no longer an out and out war and no longer an armed struggle. To say that future NI police will behave in the same way as past Ni polce is defeatist. They will behave in the way that police forces ALL behave, how that behaviour manifests itself in actions, depends entirely on the conditions and context.

I sit on a community panel re local crime, with councillors and community repesentatives. Should I refuse to take part in our monthly report from the local police and the debate that folows because of how I am treated by the Police at faslane or the G8 at Gleneagles?

I use the meetings to push the ase for young people who are often the focus of anger and attention at this sort of meetings.

Sinn Fein have a responsibility placed on them by the vote for the GFA and the rise in their own vote following the peace process. They represent more than republican/nationalist interests. They represent their consituency and should be involved in talks with the police in all aspects of policing, from young people, to safety for women on the steets, domestic violence, racist attacks against the chinese comunity etc.

They cannot share power in government without realising that they have to play a full role. And republicans have to realise that all aspects of government cannot be seen in the context of 6 vs 32 counties. What do Sinn Fein representatives say when a constituent says that the school is falling down? Do they say that they cannot help as the school boards are institutions of the British presence in Ireland, or do you get on with it.

What do they say if their is an increase of race attacks? Do they say that it's nothing to do with them?

parkhead_rfb · Getting on a bit! Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974

i think you know as well as i do that the police in the six counties are a totally different issue from schools.

the PSNI is nothing but a shiny new badge. i think at the last count it was still around 70 percent RUC. there are still also many miscarriages of justice that this force have yet to even admit never mind apologise for.

and as i have also pointed out the PSNI were still up to their old tricks as recently as the northern bank robbery.

As i have already pointed out to cymro its all well and good saying join the boards and see what happens but what about the next time they get up to their tricks what are sf's choices?

leave and be blamed for bringing down the assembly or stay and legitamise it as oh well theres republicans on the boards now.
_________________
"our revenge will be the laughter of our children" bobby sands MP

"there is no equality in a society that stands upon the political and economic bog, if only the strongest make it good or survive" bobby sands MP

Rinty · Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 5:02 pm Post subject:

"i think you know as well as i do that the police in the six counties are a totally different issue from schools."

Aye, but it is you who are claiming that the rweason to oppose the police is that they are a british institution run by the british state. What I am saying is, if you take that as your reason for opposition, then you should apply it to other institutions as well.

"i think at the last count it was still around 70 percent RUC."

Is it? I think that shows that you are wrong to oppose the involvement in the boards. If 30% of the new force is new blood then that would have a massive effect on how it evolves.

"there are still also many miscarriages of justice that this force have yet to even admit never mind apologise for......and as i have also pointed out the PSNI were still up to their old tricks as recently as the northern bank robbery."

The same can be said of our own police forces here in Great Britain, being a "british" force is not what makes them a tool of the state.

parkhead_rfb · Getting on a bit! Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974

I think the RUC even went far, far beyond what the other british police forces have done.

as i also keep saying the new blood didnt quite stop the stuff with the northern bank robbery.

you also didnt comment on the political implications when at a later date sf realise the police boards do nothing and another major incident emerges.

if they stay they legitimise it, if they leave the unionist toys come out the pram and sf are blamed for breaking the assembly down.
_________________
"our revenge will be the laughter of our children" bobby sands MP

"there is no equality in a society that stands upon the political and economic bog, if only the strongest make it good or survive" bobby sands MP

Cymro · Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 7:42 am Post subject:

If Sinn Fein find that it's no good being on the Board then that does raise problems, but no more problems than not taking part in it at all and the political implications of that. Parties in a democracy have to make these decisions all the time and often gamble on a decision - the same sort of gamble lead to the SNP trying a minority administation and not going with the Lib Dems etc, and Plaid Cymru going into coalition with Labour. It could backfire, but it could also potentially bring back a huge reward never with far greater implications.

Northern Bank Robbery, another event that happened Pre Sinn Fein being on the board. So doesn't really hold water in that instance. The PSNI while still being largely the same as the RUC is still going through some huge changes and now is the time for a Republican Party to be influencing that and not hiding behind some fear of what could happen. Who knows what the PSNI in another 5 years could be like.

This is real politics now Parkie, parties make difficult decisions to achieve an aim, you are scared.

So far you've been unable to offer anything on this thread that could bring about success without joining the Policing Board etc, merely offer insights into what could go wrong.

parkhead_rfb · Getting on a bit! Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974

Cymro · Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:50 am Post subject:

Not enough pressure though. For politics in NI to develop wider participation in the Policing Board is very high up. Had they been able to exert enough pressure from the media and the Assembly Sinn Fein would have done so.

parkhead_rfb · Getting on a bit! Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974

Cymro · Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 6:01 pm Post subject:

Not at all, yes joining the Police Board was a politcal demand, but also a demand I'd argue the DUP never ever thought would realistically been achieved at this moment in time. Had they not wanted to join they wouldn't have joined, regardless of the demands of the DUP, or even the British Government.

Given the desperation of Tony Blair to have a positive legacy had Sinn Fein and Gerry Adams not seen a worth from joining the Police Board they wouldn't have done. However given the changing politics in Northern Ireland the time was deemed to be right for it to happen. The potential positive implications of this for Republicanism far far out way arguments against which from reading your posts are based solely on idealism as opposed to realism. Not being a part of policing achieved sweet FA positively for Republicanism.