Our Scotland - www.our-scotland.org

parkhead_rfb · Getting on a bit! Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974

A lump of granite, battered by the Atlantic 265 miles northwest of the British Isles, has for decades been argued over by Britain and Ireland. At just over 70ft high and 90ft wide, Rockall seems an unlikely catalyst for the stirring of national passions.

But today senior civil servants from both countries will try to strike an agreement over oil and gas reserves around the islet.

The talks in Reykjavik are intended to put an end to past bickering, with a comprehensive deal being thrashed out between Britain, Ireland, Iceland and the Faroe Islands – a Danish dependency.

Under a new United Nations code, states applying before 2009 can claim the ocean floor that links directly to their own land mass – provided there is no dispute with neighbouring countries.

When news broke at the weekend that the UK was preparing to lodge an application for control of the underwater landmass around Rockall to the UN Commission on the Limits of the Continental Shelf, it sent a shiver through the Irish Government, in particular its Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources.

An Irish official called the British move “not very helpful”. From Dublin, it looked as if London was about to take a leaf from President Putin’s book, after the Russian leader sent a submarine to plant a titanium flag beneath the Arctic seabed.

An Irish official told The Times that the focus on the three days of talks this week will be to reach a joint position of mutual benefit.

“Ireland and the UK agreed their borders in 1988 and the status of Rockall did not affect that. If the UK still claims sovereignty over Rockall we do not agree with that,” the official said.

“Either the four nations will agree and enter a joint submission to the UN or they will each enter separate applications. In that case the areas they claim must not overlap.”

Under the 1982 Law of the Sea Convention, coastal states are allowed to own the seabed for 200 miles if it is part of a continental shelf. The new code extends the limit to 350 miles offshore, although the rules will only apply to the seabed and not to the fish above it.

Britain’s claim to Rockall dates from 1955 when two Royal Marines were dropped on to the rock by helicopter, where they planted the Union flag and cemented a plaque asserting UK sovereignty over it. The reason given at the time was to block the Soviet Union’s expansionist claims.

Thirty years later former SAS soldier Tom McClean spent a month reasserting Britain’s claim by living on Rockall in a wooden box little bigger than a coffin. His adventure was spurred by an Irish attempt to do the same a year earlier which ended in tragedy with the death by drowning of Jack Lavelle from Donegal.

Pat “The Cope” Gallagher, a member of the Irish Parliament (Dail), reacted to Mr McClean’s stunt by claiming Rockall as part of his constituency. Yesterday Mr Cope – now a minister in the Irish Government – used more diplomatic language. “I still believe it’s closer to Ireland and we should have some rights there.”

A Foreign and Commonwealth Office spokesman said: “We are hoping to submit a joint claim with Ireland and Iceland and Denmark for 2009. We will not be discussing the details of that claim. There has been a lot of scientific research into the geology of the area and that data has to be processed before we can come to a mutual agreement.”

Britain is reportedly preparing similar claims for the disputed waters surrounding the Falkland Islands and the volcanic Ascension Island in the South Atlantic.

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"our revenge will be the laughter of our children" bobby sands MP

"there is no equality in a society that stands upon the political and economic bog, if only the strongest make it good or survive" bobby sands MP

parkhead_rfb · Getting on a bit! Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974

and heres a wee song about it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sitNEVednCs
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"our revenge will be the laughter of our children" bobby sands MP

"there is no equality in a society that stands upon the political and economic bog, if only the strongest make it good or survive" bobby sands MP

Rinty · Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 4:37 pm Post subject:

What a stupid song.

parkhead_rfb · Getting on a bit! Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974

whats up with the song?

am a fan myself.
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"our revenge will be the laughter of our children" bobby sands MP

"there is no equality in a society that stands upon the political and economic bog, if only the strongest make it good or survive" bobby sands MP

Rinty · Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:29 pm Post subject:

Its just nationalist nonsense, seagulls defending a rock where nobody lives?

Rockall is clearly closest to Scotland of all the nations with claims (100 miles closer than Ireland) but I still wouldnt be arguing for a battle over ownership of the rock.

As a socialist, if the area does have oil, I would like to see it owned by the people and shared with the other nations. What flag is propped up on it is irrelevant.

Ireland quite rightly do not pursue a claim on the rock as they have been given the area nearby as part of an agreement with the UK. The idea that some old finn mchuill story should decide international territory is nonsense.

I don't like the wolfetones, think they are chancers.

William_Cleland · This is Ma' Life! Joined: 22 Apr 2007 Posts: 743

Part of Inverness-shire. End of story.

Cymro · Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:19 pm Post subject:

We should ask the seagulls

parkhead_rfb · Getting on a bit! Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974

Rinty · Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 12:45 pm Post subject:

"i like the song i think it shows brtains imperialist ways running to a rock to stick a flag on it."

By using a song to stick an Irish flag on it?

"the stuff about the seas not being silent while britannia rules the waves is also totally accurate to me."

I thinks it's "brittannia grabs the waves" but I still dont think that is clever as Britain expanding their empire through their navy is past history and does not apply to this particular situation as A) it is uninhabited and B) it is clearly closer to Britain than Ireland and is part of Britain!

Blackleaf · Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 3:55 pm Post subject:

Here's the exact location of Rockall:

Despite being some distance away, it is regarded as a part of Scotland.

Rockall, and a large sea area around it, was declared as coming under the jurisdiction of Scots law under the Scottish Adjacent Waters Boundaries Order (map) in 1999.

Here's what it looks like:

The origin of the name is debatable but it has been suggested that it derives from the Scottish Gaelic Sgeir Rocail which is often translated as "Roaring Rock" although rocail can also be translated as "tearing" or "ripping". There may also be an etymological link with the old Norse hrukka.

The first literary reference to the isle, where it is called Rockol, is found in Martin Martin's A Description of the Western isles of Scotland published in 1716 where he gives an account of a voyage to St Kilda where the locals knew the isle as Rockabarra (Rocabarraigh). The name Rocabarraigh is also used in Gaelic folklore for a mythical rock which is supposed to appear three times, the last being at the end of the world.

"Nuair a thig Rocabarra ris, is dual gun tèid an Saoghal a sgrios".
(When Rocabarra returns, the world will likely come to be destroyed/ruined)

Law of the Sea

The United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea states, “Rocks which cannot sustain human habitation or economic life of their own shall have no exclusive economic zone or continental shelf.” The Republic of Ireland, Denmark, and Iceland all acceded to the convention. The United Kingdom acceded to the convention on 25 July 1997. The United Kingdom and the Republic of Ireland have agreed to a delineation which ignores Rockall's existence and have granted exploration rights

The earliest recorded landing on the island was on 8 July 1810 when a Royal Navy officer called Basil Hall led a small landing party from the frigate HMS Endymion to the summit. The frigate was taking depth measurements around Rockall when it drifted away in a haze. The expedition made a brief attempt to find the frigate in the haze, but soon gave up and returned to Rockall. After the haze became a fog, the lookout sent to the top of Rockall spotted the ship again, but it turned away from Rockall before the expedition in their boats reached it. Finally, just before sunset, the frigate was again spotted from the top of Rockall, and the expedition was able to get back on board. The crew of the Endymion reported that they had been searching for five or six hours, firing their cannon every ten minutes. Hall related this experience and other adventures in a book entitled Fragment of Voyages and Travels Including Anecdotes of a Naval Life.

The next landing was accomplished by a Mr Johns of HMS Porcupine, whilst the ship was on a mission, from June and August of 1862, to make a survey of the sea bed prior to the laying of a transatlantic cable. Johns managed to gain foothold on the island, but failed to reach the summit.

On 18 September 1955 at precisely 10.16 am, in what would be the final territorial expansion of the British Empire, the island was officially annexed by the UK when Lieutenant-Commander Desmond Scott RN, Sergeant Brian Peel RM, Corporal AA Fraser RM, and James Fisher (a civilian naturalist and former Royal Marine), were deposited on the island by a Royal Navy helicopter from HMS Vidal (coincidentally named after the man who first charted the island). The team cemented in a brass plaque on Hall's Ledge and hoisted the Union Flag to stake the UK's claim.

The inscription on the plaque reads:

"By authority of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of her other realms and territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith, and in accordance with Her Majesty's instructions dated the 14th day of September, 1955, a landing was effected this day upon this island of Rockall from HMS Vidal. The Union flag was hoisted and possession of the island was taken in the name of Her Majesty. [Signed] R H Connell, Captain, HMS Vidal, 18 September 1955."

The formal annexation of Rockall was announced by the Admiralty on 21 September 1955.

wikipedia.org

Holebender · Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 6:58 pm Post subject:

Don't you think the rest of us are perfectly capable of googling for Rockall?
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"My instinct is to agree with your opinion of his verse, but I've never so much as glanced at it." - agentmancuso

Aventinian · Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 4:18 am Post subject:

Who gives a toss? Does Gordon Brown really need more tax money than he already has?

Share it out with anyone who has a decent claim to it - or even better, stick any oil proceeds from it in an international trust established to prevent poverty and human rights abuses across the globe.
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The resident pantomime villain.
'Socialists cry "Power to the people", and raise the clenched fist as they say it. We all know what they really mean—power over people, power to the State.'

Aventinian · Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 4:29 am Post subject:

Blimey, the Royal Marines don't half take their dressing up seriously. Looks like it's blowing a bloody gale out there.
_________________
The resident pantomime villain.
'Socialists cry "Power to the people", and raise the clenched fist as they say it. We all know what they really mean—power over people, power to the State.'

Rinty · Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 12:11 pm Post subject:

"Share it out with anyone who has a decent claim to it - or even better, stick any oil proceeds from it in an international trust established to prevent poverty and human rights abuses across the globe."

I'm all for that option aventinian, a good socialist solution Smile

Ps
the Solidarity membership form is in the post - sieze the oil for the people!

RadgeJougal · Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 5:54 pm Post subject:

Neil · Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 1:52 pm Post subject:

I always assumed it was called rockall because there was rockall elese there.
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The aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.
H. L. Mencken

Aventinian · Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 1:14 am Post subject:

parkhead_rfb · Getting on a bit! Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974

Aventinian · Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:04 pm Post subject:

parkhead_rfb · Getting on a bit! Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974