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The Big Lie...........
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Dave Coull
Independentista

Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2809

Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:08 pm Post subject:

Ultra wrote:

the accountant tells you that he doesn't have access to the majority of figures only headline values. To carry out a true analysis and compare like with like you really need to be able to drill down and examine the accounts properly.

Which is quite difficult to do when the British government classifies letting out anything remotely resembling the truth as virtually a crime punishable under the Official Secrets Act. But gradually, slow and late, bits of the truth do seep out, as we can see from this report in a Tory newspaper, based on the work of the British government's own economists.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/n...rplus-say-Government-records.html

Quote:

NORTH SEA OIL GAVE SCOTLAND "MASSIVE BUDGET SURPLUS, SAY GOVERNMENT RECORDS

An independent Scotland would have enjoyed “massive” budget surpluses thanks to North Sea oil while England’s economy languished, civil servants calculated

Ultra
This is Ma' Life!

Joined: 29 Sep 2009
Posts: 652

Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:12 pm Post subject:

Dave Coull wrote:

Ultra wrote:

Quote:

Ah yes the conspiracy theories. When in doubt bring the conspiracy theories out.

Is this the Government records from 1975?

Oil is running out in a few decades time. Then what?

Dave Coull
Independentista

Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2809

Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:17 pm Post subject:

"Ultra" suggested that my reluctance to get diverted into something which I regard as a side-issue was because

Ultra wrote:

it doesn't quite agree with the party line on such things

I replied

Quote:

Unlike you, I don't follow anybody's party line.

Ultra wrote:

how could you possibly comment on whether I fall a party line or not.

In exactly the same way that YOU made several totally unwarranted assumptions about ME .

Ultra
This is Ma' Life!

Joined: 29 Sep 2009
Posts: 652

Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:31 pm Post subject:

Dave Coull wrote:

"Ultra" suggested that my reluctance to get diverted into something which I regard as a side-issue was because

Are you on drugs or do you just like repeating random quotes which make no sense whatsoever taken out context?

Your reluctance is due to you not having a reasonable answer so like most nationalists, who live in your highland misty eyed world and not the real one, use the standard oil revenue, the person being a unionist and therefore don't have a valid opinion in your eyes, or post random nonsense like you are doing to confuse what is being said.

Or you could quote Government files from 3 decades ago...

I think I will leave you to it... You seem to spend a great deal of time on here.

Dave Coull
Independentista

Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2809

Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:58 pm Post subject:

Ultra wrote:

how could you possibly comment on whether I fall a party line or not.

In exactly the same way that YOU made several totally unwarranted assumptions about ME .

Ultra wrote:

Are you on drugs

No.

Are you?

Ultra
This is Ma' Life!

Joined: 29 Sep 2009
Posts: 652

Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:12 pm Post subject:

Dave Coull wrote:

Ultra wrote:

how could you possibly comment on whether I fall a party line or not.

In exactly the same way that YOU made several totally unwarranted assumptions about ME .

Have you run out of things to say Dave?

Has your medication kicked in?

You keep repeating the same thing over and over again.

Here's more assumptions about you. Middle aged. Unemployed. Spends far too much time on the independence forums because it makes you feel important to the deteriment of your social life and general life balance?

Am I right?

£5 bet to charity. Laughing

Shagpile
This is Ma' Life!

Joined: 03 Jan 2006
Posts: 794

Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:29 pm Post subject:

Ultra wrote:

Dave Coull wrote:

Ultra wrote:

how could you possibly comment on whether I fall a party line or not.

In exactly the same way that YOU made several totally unwarranted assumptions about ME .

OMG

Dave Coull
Independentista

Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2809

Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:38 pm Post subject:

Ultra wrote:

Here's more assumptions about you.

Probably just as wrong as all the others you have made.

Ultra wrote:

Middle aged.

Wrong.

Old.

Ultra wrote:

Unemployed.

Wrong.

Old age pensioner.

Retired.

Ultra wrote:

Spends far too much time on the independence forums

Matter of opinion

Ultra wrote:

because it makes you feel important

Wrong.

I have plenty of better reasons for feeling good about myself.

I don't give a damn whether most folk consider me important or not.

I spend time on this forum mainly because it is one way of arguing for the things I believe in, one way of "campaigning" if you like, which requires very little effort on my part. Although there are not a lot of folk on this forum, I also know for a fact, from experience, that things said here can sometimes have some effect out in the wider world. Maybe not a huge effect, but enough to make the very small amount of effort required of me worthwhile.

Ultra wrote:

to the deteriment of your social life

Wrong.

I have as much social life as I want.

Maybe not as much as YOU would want, but as much as I want.

Ultra wrote:

and general life balance?

My daughter wants me to go down to Edinburgh to see my granddaughter in the Edinburgh Gang Show (Scouts and Guides thing). I had to say I might not make it. Not because of getting my "life balance" being wrong, but simply because of my health.

Ultra wrote:

Am I right?

Clearly wrong about some factual things, for example, I'm "old" rather than "middle". Other things, being a matter of opinion, are not matters on which it is possible to bet.

Ultra wrote:

£5 bet to charity

Meaningless.

A bet only has meaning when it is placed between people who can identify each other and consequently can be certain when it has been settled. A bet placed by somebody using a false name on the internet means precisely zero.

Ultra
This is Ma' Life!

Joined: 29 Sep 2009
Posts: 652

Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 12:17 am Post subject:

Dave Coull wrote:

Ultra wrote:

Here's more assumptions about you.

Probably just as wrong as all the others you have made.

Ultra wrote:

Middle aged.

Wrong.

Old.

Ultra wrote:

Unemployed.

Wrong.

Old age pensioner.

Retired.

Ultra wrote:

Spends far too much time on the independence forums

Matter of opinion

Ultra wrote:

because it makes you feel important

Ultra wrote:

to the deteriment of your social life

Wrong.

I have as much social life as I want.

Maybe not as much as YOU would want, but as much as I want.

Ultra wrote:

and general life balance?

Ultra wrote:

Am I right?

Clearly wrong about some factual things, for example, I'm "old" rather than "middle". Other things, being a matter of opinion, are not matters on which it is possible to bet.

Ultra wrote:

£5 bet to charity

Let me see...

Old pensioned off ex local Government/civil service worker type.

Yep. Just won £5 from my mate.

Clearly someone with very little commercial awareness or business sense too judging by the comments you have made on the EU and inability to back up what you said because clearly you don't really know much about the business side of the EU or how companies operate within it's borders.

The thing that gives it away is using your name as a log in. Not very IT aware either it seems.

Whats wrong Dave?

See by your comments. You obviously feel by posting on here, or rather hoping, someone political might read your utterings.

Cubs and Scouts. Defo not a Catholic family then.

Don't you like it when other people who don't agree with you do exactly what you do and your cronies do and offer to bet people when it's pointed out how silly it is? Like most folk use their real name on the net Rolling Eyes

Dave Coull
Independentista

Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2809

Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 2:17 pm Post subject:

Ultra wrote:

using your name as a log in. Not very IT aware

I've been posting on internet forums, on and off, for about fifteen years, since 1994. I have always used my real name. I'm well aware of how unusual that is, and I'm well aware it can cause problems. Nevertheless, while other folk may seek to hide behind a false identity, I will never deny my own name.

Ultra wrote:

£5 bet to charity

I wrote:

Meaningless. A bet only has meaning when it is placed between people who can identify each other and consequently can be certain when it has been settled. A bet placed by somebody using a false name on the internet means precisely zero.

(I should have added to that, a bet only has meaning when it deals with matters of fact, not matters of opinion.)

Ultra wrote:

Here's more assumptions about you.

Probably just as wrong as all the others you have made.

Ultra wrote:

Middle aged.

WRONG.
Old.

Ultra wrote:

Unemployed.

WRONG. Old age pensioner. Retired.
If there had been a bet (which there wasn't for the simple reason that, unlike me, you are using a false name and identity) you would already have lost it, on both of these matters of fact.

Ultra wrote:

ex local Government/civil service worker type

WRONG.
For the 3rd time, wrong on a matter of fact.
Could hardly be more wrong.
Skilled worker in the construction industry (or perhaps, in the opinion of some folk, semi-skilled, but that matter of opinion is irrelevant so far as your wrong assumption on a matter of fact is concerned).
Bricklayer.
You lose yet again.

Ultra
This is Ma' Life!

Joined: 29 Sep 2009
Posts: 652

Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 4:08 pm Post subject:

Dave Coull wrote:

Ultra wrote:

using your name as a log in. Not very IT aware

Ultra wrote:

£5 bet to charity

I wrote:

Meaningless. A bet only has meaning when it is placed between people who can identify each other and consequently can be certain when it has been settled. A bet placed by somebody using a false name on the internet means precisely zero.

(I should have added to that, a bet only has meaning when it deals with matters of fact, not matters of opinion.)

Ultra wrote:

Here's more assumptions about you.

Probably just as wrong as all the others you have made.

Ultra wrote:

Middle aged.

WRONG.
Old.

Ultra wrote:

Unemployed.

Ultra wrote:

ex local Government/civil service worker type

The only thing thats wrong is your need to contunally repeat, copy and paste the same things over and over again.

Must have been right about the scouts though eh?

Notice you have selective cutting and pasting skills too. Laughing

Chances are a bricklayer for the the council. ha ha

Dave Coull
Independentista

Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2809

Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 6:06 pm Post subject:

I'm not a member of any political party. I'm not a politician. I'm not a candidate for any kind of office, and, at my age, I never will be. Despite this, the last five posts from "Ultra" have all consisted entirely of personal attacks on myself. The posts from me have been personal only in so far as I have had to refute false statements regarding myself. Of course if "Ultra" continues wallowing in the gutter with the personal attacks I'll go on refuting them. But note that the choice to make things personal, instead of having a proper discussion, came entirely from "Ultra". My view is that this is not a good way to conduct a discussion.

Ultra wrote:

Chances are a bricklayer for the the council.

No.
Private contractors.

Ultra wrote:

Must have been right about the scouts

No, you weren't. My granddaughter is in the Guides, not the Scouts. She had a friend who was in the Guides, and asked her mother if she could join also, and her mother said yes. Nothing to do with me. Personally, I wouldn't have been keen on a child joining any kind of uniformed organisation.

Ultra
This is Ma' Life!

Joined: 29 Sep 2009
Posts: 652

Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 6:49 pm Post subject:

Dave Coull wrote:

Oh boo hoo Dave. You can dish it out but you can't take it?

It's not a discussion you are having. What you do is copy and paste comment complete out of context and then repeat the same comments a few times for effect.

Then when asked to back up one of your comments you spout more garbage about not being side tracked.....

Sorry Dave. I didn't ask you for a statement on your life or your view on how to hold a discussion. Put your toys back in the pram. Typical independence fundamentalist going for the sympathy vote Laughing

Dave Coull wrote:

No. Private contractors.

Actually I won the bet because I said to my mate that you don't work as you have many threads on here and comment straight away. Guess what. I was right. Apart from that and keeping me entertained I'm not really that interested in what you have to say.

Dave Coull wrote:

Is that because kids who join the scouts and guides have to swear allegiance to the Queen and Country ie United Kingdom?

Can't have that can we? Laughing

Holebender
Ready For Afterlife!

Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 2752

Location: Here or There

Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 6:54 pm Post subject:

Ultra wrote:

I said to my mate...

Frankly, I'm a little surprised you have one. (I was going to write "any" but that's probably stretching the bounds of credibility too far!)
_________________
"My instinct is to agree with your opinion of his verse, but I've never so much as glanced at it." - agentmancuso

Ultra
This is Ma' Life!

Joined: 29 Sep 2009
Posts: 652

Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:24 pm Post subject:

Holebender wrote:

Ultra wrote:

I said to my mate...

Frankly, I'm a little surprised you have one. (I was going to write "any" but that's probably stretching the bounds of credibility too far!)

Yes, I have a good few who I know in person Holebender.

Not a bunch of internet acquintances and geeks like you. Laughing

I wondered why there is loads of singles ads on here. Is this why you keep coming back for more bender?

Dave Coull
Independentista

Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2809

Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:27 pm Post subject:

Ultra wrote:

I won the bet

If you had placed a bet with a betting shop, you would have lost it on THREE matters of fact:

Quote:

Middle aged.

WRONG

Quote:

Unemployed

WRONG

Quote:

ex local Government/civil service worker type

WRONG.

Ultra wrote:

Must have been right about the scouts

I wrote:

Ultra wrote:

Is that because kids who join the scouts and guides have to swear allegiance to the Queen and Country

I said I wouldn't be keen on a child joining ANY kind of uniformed organisation. That includes the Republican Youth, the Young Red Guards, or whatever.

I wrote:

the last five posts from "Ultra" have all consisted entirely of personal attacks on myself

which was true at the time that I wrote it, but "Ultra" has now posted a personal attack on Holebender.

Ultra wrote:

Dave. You can dish it out

The personal abuse between "Ultra" and myself began, and has continued, in one direction. Up until this point, it has all come from the cowardly liar who hides behind the pseudoname "Ultra".

Ultra
This is Ma' Life!

Joined: 29 Sep 2009
Posts: 652

Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 11:34 pm Post subject:

Dave Coull wrote:

Ultra wrote:

I won the bet

If you had placed a bet with a betting shop, you would have lost it on THREE matters of fact:

Quote:

Middle aged.

WRONG

Quote:

Unemployed

WRONG

Quote:

ex local Government/civil service worker type

WRONG.

Ultra wrote:

Must have been right about the scouts

I wrote:

Ultra wrote:

Is that because kids who join the scouts and guides have to swear allegiance to the Queen and Country

I said I wouldn't be keen on a child joining ANY kind of uniformed organisation. That includes the Republican Youth, the Young Red Guards, or whatever.

I wrote:

the last five posts from "Ultra" have all consisted entirely of personal attacks on myself

which was true at the time that I wrote it, but "Ultra" has now posted a personal attack on Holebender.

Ultra wrote:

Dave. You can dish it out

The personal abuse between "Ultra" and myself began, and has continued, in one direction. Up until this point, it has all come from the cowardly liar who hides behind the pseudoname "Ultra".

See it's quite funny that you complain about personal attacks but you have done nothing but attack me since I started posting on here.

Now the latest that I am a cowadly liar. Ah yes, dead easy to be an internet hardman and abuse people and complete proves my point about the abject rubbish you have spouted. Repeat... Repeat... Repeat...

My bet with my mate was that you would be old and someone who does not work. Both counts are correct. The rest you decided to make public yourself with very little prompting from me. All information you have volunteered quite willingly about you not following any party line following blatant lies about what I have said and mis-quoting of posts taken out of context.

Just seems to me much like attention seeking behaviour on your part that you need to feel useful on an internet forum Laughing

Who's hiding behind any name? When in doubt call the person you don't know a coward because you really have nothing better to say. Oh dear why don't you grow up? Unfortunately, what is usually the case on the net is when you do actually meet people who give you abuse they have very little to say in real life situations to back up their words as they cannot hide behind their keyboard like you are doing.

I also see you are trying to drag other posters into your rant. How sad. Maybe they should not abuse people either. Embarassed

I think I will just leave you to it.... You are obviously can't seem to handle people answering you back and judging by your posts have a great deal of issues dealing with authority figures who wear uniforms...

It's not like your opinion matters! Laughing

Dave Coull
Independentista

Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2809

Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 6:07 pm Post subject:

From things he himself has said, "Ultra" appears to be a young-ish man. Well, compared to an old age pensioner like myself, anyway, he doesn't appear to be retired. Yet "Ultra" has sent more posts than I have in the last couple of days. Using his own logic, does that mean "Ultra" must be unemployed?

Ultra wrote:

you have done nothing but attack me since I started posting on here

Untrue. When you first started posting here, I DISAGREED with your political views. But there was absolutely nothing personal in it. Things only started to get personal when you started making false personal assumptions about me. Up until that point, there had been disagreements, but not personal ones. I think the first false assumption was when you referred to me as an "SNP fundamentalist". I responded by pointing out how wrong that was. Despite which, you then went on to accuse me of "following the party line". Then your next bit of personal abuse was to accuse me of being "on drugs". By this time it was obvious you were, to use a footballing analogy, "going for the man and not the ball". In other words, you were attacking on personal, not political, grounds. You followed that up with

Quote:

Here's more assumptions about you. Middle aged. Unemployed.

Both of these personal assumptions on matters of FACT (not opinion) were wrong, but, instead of acknowledging being wrong, you pressed on with more false personal assumptions.

Quote:

ex local Government/civil service worker type.

When I pointed out that in fact the thing I've mostly worked at in my life has been as a bricklayer, in the construction industry, instead of acknowledging being wrong, you came back with

Quote:

Chances are a bricklayer for the the council

And you were wrong yet again.

Yes, I would say that somebody who persists in stating as fact personal things which they just made up is a liar.

As for "cowardly", this is nothing at all to do with being a "hard man". I've never claimed to be a "hard man", and I never would. And of course if an old age pensioner who is not in the best of health were to get into a punch up with a much younger man, the chances are the much younger man might not suffer much damage. But that's not the point. The point is at least anything I have to say is always said using my own real name. The reason for describing your behavior, in spreading made-up falsehoods, as cowardly, is that you are doing so from behind a false name. If I say something about another person on here, I say it using my own real name. Not only that, but quite a few people on here have met me. Some of them know my address. And even if they haven't met me, chances are they know somebody else who has. And even if they don't know my exact address, they have a pretty good idea of where to find me.

Being identifiable can have the effect of making folk more truthful.

Ultra
This is Ma' Life!

Joined: 29 Sep 2009
Posts: 652

Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 7:06 pm Post subject:

Dave Coull wrote:

Ultra wrote:

you have done nothing but attack me since I started posting on here

Quote:

Here's more assumptions about you. Middle aged. Unemployed.

Both of these personal assumptions on matters of FACT (not opinion) were wrong, but, instead of acknowledging being wrong, you pressed on with more false personal assumptions.

Quote:

ex local Government/civil service worker type.

When I pointed out that in fact the thing I've mostly worked at in my life has been as a bricklayer, in the construction industry, instead of acknowledging being wrong, you came back with

Quote:

Chances are a bricklayer for the the council

Yawn.

Who is this 3rd person or audience you keep addressing your posts to? More attention seeking?

Being identifiable on the internet leaves you wide open to identify theft.

Meantime, why don't you go back and read some of your previous posts on threads I commented on and how you became abusive when asked to further comment on what you posted. Even a few other ridiculed your posts and views...

I don't know you from Adam. So have no real interest in your personal life or getting to know you.

No Dave you call people cowards and liars and then play the sympathy card when challanged. Again, wouldn't waste my energy on somone like you. All mouth and really thats it. Nothing more than an old git who's discovered forums while the younger generation are on Bebo, Facebook, and Blogs.

The wind up's been fun but I'd rather pass comment on a few more intellectual posters on here than someone like you who hovers waiting to comment on the next new thread because you have nothing to occupy your time.

Pub time and meeting friends time. Remember friends and socializing?

Enjoy your armchair politics and posting more abject garbage.

Cut, paste, cut, paste.

Dave Coull
Independentista

Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2809

Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 7:49 pm Post subject:

Ultra wrote:

attention seeking?

My reason for using my own name is that I have always considered that to be normal. If everybody else used their own names, then nobody would think it "attention seeking" of me to do so, it would just be seen as normal. Even though it has come to be unusual, on the internet, I still regard it as the healthy thing to do.

Ultra wrote:

identify theft

It's been tried a few times in my case. It's a risk I choose to take. I accept that some folk may have legitimate reasons for using a pseudoname. But for anybody who hides their identity to spread deliberate falsehoods about folk more open than themselves is just despicable. Like I said, you're a cowardly liar.

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