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Reluctant Hero · Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 9:24 pm Post subject: Title Decider?

It would be an occasion that everybody would want to see. The two best teams in the league going head to head for a winner takes all match.

Visions of Liverpool vs Arsenal in 1989 spring to mind. Tension, excitement, agony and ecstasy all rolled into one.

TV companies are creaming themselves in anticipation of a bumper viewing audience and the prospect of charging trillions for advertising time during the programme.

Quite simply it is a game everybody wants to see.

Not in Scotland apparently. People seem to think that every effort should be made to avoid a title decider.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_prem/7336973.stm

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youatethebabyjesus · No Longer a Wean Joined: 18 Mar 2008 Posts: 60

Rinty · Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 8:42 am Post subject:

I think it is ridiculous. Admitting defeat beacuse of events a few yaers ago is nonsense. We had a riot at a scottish cup finla between celtic and rangers fans and we dont ban them from playing against each other in a cup final.

I have seen celtic win the league at Ibrox and win it at celtic park against rangers and there was no trouble, why take the worst example as the standard.

Only by allowing these games to happen and stewarding them better will we get over this, running away from the problem isn't a solution.

The real trouble is after the game across the city and in other towns, avoiding an exciting climax to the season won't change that.

Anyway, it hasn't been avoided as Rangers can win the league on the 27th if they beat celtic on wednesday. I don't think that they will though, and, because of the fixture backlog, think that Rangers will not win the league (if they do win it) until the last week when they will be playing three games in one week looking for a few points to win it.

youatethebabyjesus · No Longer a Wean Joined: 18 Mar 2008 Posts: 60

youatethebabyjesus · No Longer a Wean Joined: 18 Mar 2008 Posts: 60

i've been watching rangers for 30 years at ibrox, i can't recall celtic ever clinching the leauge at ibrox, i may have chosen to dissolve this horrible occurence in my mind right enough.

Rinty · Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 11:35 am Post subject:

You might be tecchnically right actually. 87/88 was certainly treated as that, if memory serves me right we went 16 pnts clear by winning at Ibrox with 8 games left (it was 2 pts for a win then).

I dont think the game in 99 was anything like a riot. The lessons learned were in Kick-off times and better stewarding. It was a partcularly bad-tempered game and some players behaviour made it worse, and not the norm or anything like it.

Anyway, you are wrong, as the police, the footall authorities and the clubs have agreed to schedule the last old fim game on the 27th meaning that Rangers CAN win the league at Celtic Park this season.

They won't though Smile

youatethebabyjesus · No Longer a Wean Joined: 18 Mar 2008 Posts: 60

Reluctant Hero · Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 9:33 pm Post subject:

Think Celtic should be deducted 10 points for that coin throwing incident tonight Wink

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youatethebabyjesus · No Longer a Wean Joined: 18 Mar 2008 Posts: 60

Rinty · Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 9:33 am Post subject:

I dont think that the behavior of a handful of celtic fans that day was the worst for 30 years as you suggest, no worse than rangers fans at pittodrie or celtics fans behaviour at other grounds, in fact many fans in many places.

The SFA, rangers and celtic and the police reviewed and changed kick-off times and stewarding tactics as a result of the incidents. That is what happened, the police did not, as you suggest, change the idea that a title decider could take place. As I said the police ok'ed the potential title decider, so you are wrong on that, they will insist on an early kick-off though and the stewards at CP will be using different tactics than they did that night.

The main findings of the inquiry was that the behaviour of players caused the trouble and celtic were fined for failing to control their players. there was criticism of both sets of players for the various scuffles on the pitch that led to 3 red cards and twelve yellows.

youatethebabyjesus · No Longer a Wean Joined: 18 Mar 2008 Posts: 60

really, i'd bedelighted if you could tell me (since 1980) where a group of football fans behaved worse than the celtic fans at p/head in 99. this is revisionism at it's best by celtic fans, that is the worst behaviour by any scottish fans since 1980, no arguments.

the celtic fans were a disgrace last night as well with missile throwing and 2 rangers supporters buses attacked after the game.

never mind the secterian abuse of the 'masonic' referee!

Fedayn · Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 12:19 pm Post subject:

Fedayn · Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 12:20 pm Post subject:

Rinty · Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 12:26 pm Post subject:

IT AS PRETTY BAD BUT MY VIEW HARDLY REPRESENT SCELTIC FAns orcounts as revisionism.

The outcome of the inquiries into that evening was that we shouldnt have later kick-offs for natches such as this and celtic acted immediately to address stewarding problems. The SFA fined celtic for the behaviour of the players that they said led to the trouble.

It is you who are guilty of revisionism by saying that the police decided that tile deciders couldnt be old fim games. Their decision to allow the 27th april match this season when it could have been a decider proves that.

As for buses being attacked after games, are you talking about the behaviour in the ground oroutside, if you are talking about outside then fans have died in assaults following matches, if you are talking about inside the ground then we have seen behaviour as bad.

You may have missed the abrdeen v rangers in 2002 match when robbie winters was hit by a coin and aberdeen fans invaded the pitch, that was very similar to the game in 99, coin throwing and pitch invasions. The match was held up for 17 minutes as a result.

In the early 80's at aberdeen I remember our supporters bus being like an ambulance after an attack from casuals. To isolate this gane as the worst is to ignre everything else, especially if we are talking about both inside and outside the stadium.

I have no intention of justifying the arseholes who caused the trouble in 99, on and off the pitch, but you have led a sheltered life if that is the worst trouble you have seen in 30 years.

And, you are wrong as the police DO allow an old firm title decider and stewarding and kick-off times WERE addresssed as a result of the disgraceful behaviour of a small section of the support that night.

youatethebabyjesus · No Longer a Wean Joined: 18 Mar 2008 Posts: 60

creltic addresssed the stewarding problem?
really?
lighters, coins,pies and pich invasions and thats just in the last 2 years or so.
the may 99 behaviour was the worst since 1980, i would say the abrdenn fans come 2nd with the display you refer to but at least the ref did not have blood pouring from his head after an assualt by missiles, thankfully rangers players stopped the invading celtic fans getting at mr. dallas.

revisionism.

and lets not forget the secterian masonic chanting from last night.

Rinty · Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 1:29 am Post subject:

I didnt notice sectarian chanting last night, but I dont go looking for those things.

as I said, I am will not be justifying the actions of celtic players and/or supporters on that night so you are arguing with the wrong person. I havent attempted to revise any if it and havent disputed your account of that match. It was disgraceful behaviour.

Where we do disagree is your assertion that kick-off times, stewarding and players behaviour had nothing to do with it and that the police now insist on no old firm title deciders. It was only 2 weeks ago that the police agreed to a date that could heve been a title decider

Old firm games since that day have had earlier kick-offs at the insistence of police, celtic were fined for the behaviour of the players and the SFA acknowledged that Celtic review of stewarding was done swiftly and took that into account when deciding the fine.

The night in 2002 at pittodrie saw an Aberdeen player coined by a Rangers supporter and a subsequent pitch invasion by aberdeen supporters and led to the Ibrox security chief saying that Rangers v Aberdeen matches were now a bigger security concern and harder to police than old firm matches. It's just a matter of opinion which is worse.

I would say that the scariest and most violent times were the early 80's in general.
Idiots are idiots and all clubs have them. Your attempt to make this an issue of celtic fans being worse/better than rangers fans is nonsense.

The idiots who sing about Charlie adams non-existent sisters pants are no better or worse than those who think racist non-jokes about nakamura is a sutable banner or song for a football ground. I dont know why you think that there is a preferable type of idiot based on what scarf they wear!

youatethebabyjesus · No Longer a Wean Joined: 18 Mar 2008 Posts: 60

i must be stupid cos i think the worst behaved fans are the ones who more often and CONSITENTLY throw missiles at opposing players and the referee and invade the pitch. you know, i know,EVERYONE knows only 1 club far excedes any other when guilty of breaching security at their own ground in scotland.

i do not give a chuff about what people sing, i do not partake myself but people who complain about celtic/rangers fans offensive chants are mostly jumping on the offended bus, they are mostly just numpties.

i do care about not being hit by a coin or lighter or seeing the ref being physically attacked or my team/backroom staff being assaulted by missiles.or having my bus attacked.

undignified in deafeat, undignified in victory.the greatest fans in the world.

Rinty · Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 7:23 am Post subject:

I have no interest in your pathetic competition about whose thugs are better/worse than the other.

I would agree that missile throwers are the worst offenders, mainly because it cannot be prevented.

It can,however, be identified these days and clubs take action against the individual.

My personal opinion is that banning individuals for life does send out a message but it doesnt work as we can see at many grounds, CP, Ibrox, Pittodrie for example.

I would contemplate a match behind closed doors or maybe closing a specific stand for one game when it becomes a repeat problem from one group of fans. But we are talking about a handful of incidents over a period of ten years and including missiles thrown by away fans so we have to be careful. If the home team are punished severely for coin throwing, say by deducting points, then how hard would it be for a fan to get into the home end at a game and throw a coin to deliberately get the other teams points docked?

As I said, you wil get no argument from me about the behaviour of fans, I dont see what you get out of some imaginary league table of who is the best/worst behaved supporters.

The buses being attacked is another issue. That happens in many places and I have been on celtic supporter's buses where it has happened twice over the years. One of those was our local bus being bricked in our own home town, once in Glasgow on the way back from an old firm game. It is pointless to start counting who is the worst/best away from grounds and doesnt consider that those of us who faced a terrifying attack on a bus have seen nothing compared to the fans who have died as a result of old firm violence.

Idiots and thugs are idiots and thugs no matter what scarf they wear mate, you should be wary of taking pleasure from the idiots and thugs in green and white scarfs and should be aware that your own fans are no angels.

Rinty · Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 7:23 am Post subject:

I have no interest in your pathetic competition about whose thugs are better/worse than the other.

I would agree that missile throwers are the worst offenders, mainly because it cannot be prevented.

It can,however, be identified these days and clubs take action against the individual.

My personal opinion is that banning individuals for life does send out a message but it doesnt work as we can see at many grounds, CP, Ibrox, Pittodrie for example.

I would contemplate a match behind closed doors or maybe closing a specific stand for one game when it becomes a repeat problem from one group of fans. But we are talking about a handful of incidents over a period of ten years and including missiles thrown by away fans so we have to be careful. If the home team are punished severely for coin throwing, say by deducting points, then how hard would it be for a fan to get into the home end at a game and throw a coin to deliberately get the other teams points docked?

As I said, you wil get no argument from me about the behaviour of fans, I dont see what you get out of some imaginary league table of who is the best/worst behaved supporters.

The buses being attacked is another issue. That happens in many places and I have been on celtic supporter's buses where it has happened twice over the years. One of those was our local bus being bricked in our own home town, once in Glasgow on the way back from an old firm game. It is pointless to start counting who is the worst/best away from grounds and doesnt consider that those of us who faced a terrifying attack on a bus have seen nothing compared to the fans who have died as a result of old firm violence.

Idiots and thugs are idiots and thugs no matter what scarf they wear mate, you should be wary of taking pleasure from the idiots and thugs in green and white scarfs and should be aware that your own fans are no angels.

youatethebabyjesus · No Longer a Wean Joined: 18 Mar 2008 Posts: 60

there is a repugnant element to the rangers support, i wish they would leave us alone. we ARE NOT guilty of consistently invading pitches and throwing missiles. you can dress this up any way you want.celtic fans are the most thuggish and disorderly in nscotland by a distance.