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Reluctant Hero
Jim Baxter is God...........really!!!!
Joined: 17 Sep 2005
Posts: 3178
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 Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Dave Coull wrote: | | I suggest you try reading the work of the Jewish anarchist Alexander Berkman, who wrote "The ABC of Anarchist Communism", which has never been out of print since he wrote it, although nowadays it tends to be called simply "The ABC of Anarchism" (available from Freedom Press, of London, who can be contacted by email at shop@freedompress.org.uk). |
I have also got that text, but the book I have combines the "ABC of Anarchism" and "What is Communist Anarchism?" and is called "What is Anarchism?" from AK Press.
| Quote: | | But to get from that to believing that government is the root of all evil |
I don't think anyone was saying that government was the root of all evil. We were just saying that we could get by without a government.
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jamesieboy
Helping with the Count
Joined: 15 Feb 2009
Posts: 327
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| Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 1:30 am Post subject: |
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So who would take the decisions that affect the country?
And would we lose all the jobs which are associated with government? |
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Dave Coull
Independentista
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2809
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| Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 10:14 am Post subject: |
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| This is the History section of the Our Scotland forum. I posted Uri Gordon's thing on the history of anarchism in Palestine and Israel here because I think it's quite interesting in itself, but especially because it highlights an aspect of the history of that region which the Islamists, the Zionists, and the Christian fundamentalists would ALL agree they would prefer to be forgotten and ignored. Far too often the politics of that region are presented as if there are just two "sides", and there always were just two "sides", and you have to choose either one or the other of these two sides, and there are no other possibilities. Well, that's all lies. Now, as a result of me posting Uri Gordon's history of anarchism in Palestine and Israel here, one of the folk who had swallowed those lies, and who had helped to spread those lies, is beginning to ask questions. But Jamesie, if you are genuinely interested in learning more about anarchist ideas, then I suggest there are far better places to find out the answers to your questions than here. For a start, there's the Anarchist FAQ . FAQ stands for "frequently asked questions", and the Anarchist FAQ takes the form of questions and answers, and, sure as anything, you will find YOUR questions in there, together with answers. Although the Anarchist FAQ has now been published as a book, with Iain McKay from Glasgow as the author, it's still available on line at various websites, including this one: http://www.infoshop.org/faq/index.html (By the way, Freedom Press, of London, have just this week re-published Kropotkin's classic work on evolution and 'human nature', "Mutual Aid", with a new foreword by Iain McKay.) |
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agentmancuso
Ready For Afterlife!
Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 2910
Location: Gone to the forest
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| Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Reluctant Hero wrote: | | I don't think anyone was saying that government was the root of all evil. |
Anarchism proceeds from exactly that position.
| Quote: | | we could get by without a government. |
How would we run the court system? Taxation? Uphold law & order? Arrange road works?
Privatisation is all well and good, but it has its limits.
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It's murder every week at Firhill. |
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Dave Coull
Independentista
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2809
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| Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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I have already explained several times that my reason for posting Uri Gordon's history of anarchism in Palestine and Israel was to show that the conventional portrayal of events in that region as just a matter of Islamism versus Zionism is a gross distortion both of history and of what is happening today. I didn't intend to get into an ideological debate. I will continue to treat this as a matter for proper discussion in the History forum. | Reluctant Hero wrote: | | I don't think anyone was saying that government was the root of all evil |
| agentmancuso wrote: | | Anarchism proceeds from exactly that position. |
That's a bit of an over-simplification of what anarchism has been historically, and is today, in such present day movements as the Israeli Anarchists Against The Wall. Anarchism does reject government, but, more generally, it rejects all authoritarian social relationships. It rejects the idea that these are somehow "inevitable" because they are "just human nature". I already mentioned that Freedom Press, of London (an enterprise whose founders, a hundred and twenty years ago or so, include Kropotkin himself) have just, this week, re-published "Mutual Aid: A Factor of Evolution", which was written by one of the most famous anarchists of them all, Prince Peter Kropotkin (well, he couldn't help being born a prince, and he did manage to divest himself of most of the trappings of his aristocratic background) with a new foreword by my Glaswegian friend Iain McKay. As well as being an anarchist, Kropotkin was also a distinguished scientist, and he wrote "Mutual Aid" specifically to refute the distortions of Darwin being promoted in his day by Thomas Huxley and the "social darwinists". Many distinguished scientists, such as the biologist Stephen Jay Gould for instance, have recognised the importance of Kropotkin's work on evolution. That argument about what is, and what is not, "just human nature", continues to this day. Anybody who wants to be knowledgeable about that debate really does need to read Kropotkin. |
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jamesieboy
Helping with the Count
Joined: 15 Feb 2009
Posts: 327
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| Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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All of that is fine and fair, Dave. As long as you're not applying anarchism to the modern reality which, to be fair (which I always am) I don't think you are doing.
Part of my academic background is the Spanish Civil War, where the Anarchists played a large parge in events leading up to it. Between them and the Communists many analysts blame them for splitting and weakening the opposition to the Franoist forces.
Siempre venceremos juntos! |
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Dave Coull
Independentista
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2809
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| Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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| jamesieboy wrote: | | the Spanish Civil War, where the Anarchists played a large part in events leading up to it. |
The anarchists played a huge part in events DURING the Civil War also. Essentially, if there had been no anarchists, there would have been no Spanish Civil War. General Franco and his colleagues never intended to fight a civil war. They thought they could stage a military coup d'etat which would all be over in a matter of days. As indeed it would have been, if it hadn't been for the anarchists. When it became clear that so-called "loyal" republican forces and police had no stomach for opposing the fascists, the anarchists told them to get out of the way, raided the armouries, and formed militias which stopped the fascists in their tracks. Now, I suppose you could argue that, if Franco's military coup d'etat had succeeded quickly, a lot of lives would have been saved. But would they? When the fascists finally did win, they went on a murderous rampage of near-genocidal proportions. If there had been no resistance, they would simply have done that sooner. | jamesieboy wrote: | | Part of my academic background |
You have LIED about your academic background, Jamesie. You claimed you have "a degree in geography from Cambridge". Yet you got North Africa and Sub-Saharan Africa mixed up, you thought that an aid convoy to Gaza would have to go through Syria, and you misplaced Misrata by more than a thousand miles. Even though Cambridge University may not have the very best of university Geography departments, I find it hard to believe they could be quite THAT bad. Therefore, I think you tell lies. Why does this matter? It matters to me. It matters to me that people should not tell lies. |
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agentmancuso
Ready For Afterlife!
Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 2910
Location: Gone to the forest
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| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Dave Coull wrote: | | Now, I suppose you could argue that, if Franco's military coup d'etat had succeeded quickly, a lot of lives would have been saved. But would they? When the fascists finally did win, they went on a murderous rampage of near-genocidal proportions. If there had been no resistance, they would simply have done that sooner. |
That's highly debatable. What's more certain is that the determined anarchist resistance in Catalunya was sabotaged by Marxist deference to the USSR.
| Quote: | | Therefore, I think you tell lies. |
That's for certain too.
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It's murder every week at Firhill. |
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Dave Coull
Independentista
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2809
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| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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To Jamesieboy, | I wrote: | | I suggest you try reading the work of the Jewish anarchist Alexander Berkman, who wrote "The ABC of Anarchist Communism", which has never been out of print since he wrote it, although nowadays it tends to be called simply "The ABC of Anarchism" (available from Freedom Press, of London, who can be contacted by email at shop@freedompress.org.uk). |
I have just received an e-mail which I'm going to quote parts of. Some bits have been left out, to protect the guilty. | Quote: | | I was lurking on the Our Scotland board, and happened to see a post of yours where you happened to recommend The ABC of Anarchism by Alexander Berkman. Given how little I’ve read on the subject, I bought it, and read some of it on the way up to............protest in Dundee............I just wanted to drop you a quick email saying thanks for suggesting it (admittedly it was to some anti-arab guy on the our scotland board, but a suggestion is a suggestion.....…)It’s a fascinating book and probably the least pretentious political book I’ve read ............Sorry for bothering you with this, but I always like finding stuff I think I should have read years ago, but didn't. |
Rinty says Jamesie is a troll, and wonders why I bother answering the likes of him.
Because he's not the only person reading the answers. |
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jamesieboy
Helping with the Count
Joined: 15 Feb 2009
Posts: 327
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| Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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Dave, I have a degree from a college in Cambridge. A combination of a number of subjects, Geography being one of them. And Spanish - I had to spend a year in Barcelona and lived opposite the stadium of RCD Espanyol, on Av General Mitre.
My lecturers at Cambridge were Dr Anthony Morgan, (Spanish) Dr Fitzpatrick and Dr Peter Taylor. You can still find Dr Morgan on the website of Anglia Ruskin College.
So I am not, after all, a liar. |
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Lord Pitsligo
This is Ma' Life!
Joined: 14 Aug 2007
Posts: 709
Location: Perthshire
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| Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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| jamesieboy wrote: |
So I am not, after all, a liar. |
Yes, you lied. You said you got a degree from Cambridge. You didn't, you got one from Anglia Ruskin College, one of the new trendy universities that never fails anyone because they're more interested in money than academic standards. I worked in one of these not far from Cambridge for a year and they're an utter disgrace.
So what was your actual degree in? Not what courses did you do, what was the degree awarded?
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Caledonia's been everything I've ever had...
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jamesieboy
Helping with the Count
Joined: 15 Feb 2009
Posts: 327
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| Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:00 am Post subject: |
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You take top prize for pedantry. And that's saying something on this list.
I never, at any time, said I was at Cambridge University so how can I be a liar.
My college was on East Road, which is in the city of Cambridge. Not Oxford, not York but Cambridge.
Your comments about the college stem from sheer ignorance and snobbery. They are also based on your view on the current situation. I started my course in 1987.
The reason I chose that course and that college was due to the diversity it offered. In the so-called 'traditional' universities much of what they offered was staid and inflexible, studying Cervantes for example. I preferred to learn the working/living language.
The reason I was accepted for the course was that i had already spent a year in a Spanish-speaking country (Peru). There was a civil war at the time between the government and the Sendero Luminoso (Shining Path) guerrillas and Peru was generally out-of-bounds to the main tourist/travellers at the time. It was unsafe. |
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jamesieboy
Helping with the Count
Joined: 15 Feb 2009
Posts: 327
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| Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:05 am Post subject: |
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Humanities/Social Studies.2/1. The examining body was the CNAA.
I also went to Jordanhill for my PGCE. And Pilgrims at the Univ. of Kent at Canterbury for the TEFL Certificate.
And you? |
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Lord Pitsligo
This is Ma' Life!
Joined: 14 Aug 2007
Posts: 709
Location: Perthshire
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| Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:49 am Post subject: |
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So can I say I studied mathematics, chemistry, physics & english at Edinburgh because I went to school there?
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Caledonia's been everything I've ever had...
Possibly the funniest site in the world, 'The Daily Mail' - http://www.dailymail.co.uk
If it wasn't for my avatar, you wouldn't be reading this... |
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Alasdair
Our Scotland = 2nd Job!
Joined: 01 May 2008
Posts: 1021
Location: Clydesdale
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| Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 11:52 am Post subject: |
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Maybe I can say I studied Accountancy and law because I took a couple of basic introductory modules?
It certainly sounds better than the BA (hons) Business and Management (with HRM) I wasted 4 years of my life to get 
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Lord Pitsligo
This is Ma' Life!
Joined: 14 Aug 2007
Posts: 709
Location: Perthshire
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| Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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I think I once browsed a self build magazine in the services at Oxford, how about I say I studied architecture at Oxford?
I may have glanced at a paper back as well. Yay-hey! English literature!
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Caledonia's been everything I've ever had...
Possibly the funniest site in the world, 'The Daily Mail' - http://www.dailymail.co.uk
If it wasn't for my avatar, you wouldn't be reading this... |
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Dave Coull
Independentista
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2809
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| Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Lord Pitsligo wrote: | | I once browsed a self build magazine in the services at Oxford, how about I say I studied architecture at Oxford? |
My older brother, Bert, went to Oxford. He not only studied how to build, he actually put architecture into practice at Oxford.
(Like me, Bert is a bricklayer by trade. He worked on building some housing estate in Oxford. Which was probably more useful than many of the things a majority of the graduates of Oxford University have done.) |
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agentmancuso
Ready For Afterlife!
Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 2910
Location: Gone to the forest
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| Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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| jamesieboy wrote: | | In the so-called 'traditional' universities much of what they offered was staid and inflexible, studying Cervantes for example. I preferred to learn the working/living language. |
I wasn't planning to waste any more time interacting with you, as you're quite obviously a hopeless f***ing liar. I imagine that even some two-bit polytechnic could teach you better Spanish than the online translator you've been using here.
But I couldn't let the above comment lie: Cervantes is a genius, and only an ignoramus would claim otherwise.
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It's murder every week at Firhill. |
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jamesieboy
Helping with the Count
Joined: 15 Feb 2009
Posts: 327
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| Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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Did I say Cervantes was not a genius? It's just that some people want to learn the living language. In the shops, bars, businesses of Madrid.
You use this word 'liar' freely when you can't substantiate your pathetic claims.
First you doubted my qualifications. Then when that didn't work you said the college was c**=, but could provide no evidence.
You are out of your depth. Obviously. |
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jamesieboy
Helping with the Count
Joined: 15 Feb 2009
Posts: 327
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| Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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Pedants United.
What is the problem with the city of Cambridge, of which the university is a part, along with the other colleges, the Grafton Centre, the shoe shops, the Boat Race pub, Cambridge United FC (where I used to spend my Sat Afternoons),the museums, Grantchester??????????What is the problem you have with going to a college in that city that isn't part of the university?
Snobbery, I detect. (I exclude Dave in that one)
For your info, I was also a fork-lift truck driver for 10 years in a photographic company outside Glasgow.
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