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jamesieboy · Helping with the Count Joined: 15 Feb 2009 Posts: 327

Obviously he'll be getting plenty of advice from 'professional' journalists.

You would hardly embark on such a journey, touching on issues which are risky because of the extremes of violence you would encounter.

Ross Kemp is a front man, nothing more.

Dave Coull · Independentista Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 2809

As the reason why Ross Kemp's so-called "documentaries" lack credibility,

jamesieboy · Helping with the Count Joined: 15 Feb 2009 Posts: 327

The argument is not about who his wife is, that is irrelevant.

Yes, she's ugly. And so is he, Gaaawwwwd - he looks like he has Dimples.

And yer, he may not have a nice personality.

But the subjects he explores are interesting and revealing.

(edited for unacceptable language)

Dave Coull · Independentista Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 2809

In my very first post under this topic heading, I wrote

Rinty · Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 9:25 pm Post subject:

"Maybe he got folk to pose as Roma and make the statements they did. Because their comments were a terrible indictment of the Roma community throughout Europe."

How can one Roma community be an indictment of others. Roma is quite a wide descriptuion that inlcudes people wiht little or no cultural or other connection.

This would be simpler if you just linked us to his programme and quoted directly. The rest of you rant is juts paranoid nonsense.

I stated an opinion on the validity of using 'Ross Kemp on Gangs' as a source, this doent mean I have said it is law, its just my opinion. It has nothing to do with the other stuff about PC and left that you attempt to link it to.

Youve lost it.

Lino meanwehile rejects a book review because of the newspaper it is in, rather than the content of the review. I dont rekect Rooss kemp as a source because I dont like the channel it is on, I reject it as I have seen it, watch it, and know that it contains no analysis of crime, the causes or the effects of the crime, it just shows some gangs and revels in how 'hard' they are.

I actually quite like the programme, I just dont feel it adds anything to the debate on Govanhill and dont see that you have made that connection in your debate.

Dave Coull · Independentista Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 2809

Rinty · Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 10:38 pm Post subject:

Ross Kemp did one programme on the four series that involved Bulgarian Mafia, their links to london crime and to roma pickpockets in cities. It made no mention of Slovakian Roma from what I am told. I dont remember the specific programme myself.

What I remember is a few programmes on neo-nazis and their links to gangs across europe and UK. I dont see jamesie calling for any action on that Smile

It isnt proper journalism as such. what he does is interview gangs with the remit of showing how hard and evil they are. He doesnt set out to investigate gangs and reach any startling conclusions, the producers know what they are looking for and go get it. Kemp isnt a journalist just a celebrity presenter.

jamesieboy · Helping with the Count Joined: 15 Feb 2009 Posts: 327

What I'm saying at is the Roma have many amongst their number who indulge in crime as part of their culture.

Now i am prepared to say that they are like that from the start because they are ostracised throughout Europe (and I saw it when I lived in Spain).

However we could go round in circles here. Is it the Roma's fault for indulging in activities that lead to them being ostracised. Or is everyone else in Europe a racist (ie - anti-Roma)?

Dave what I suggest we should do. I suggest that if they are caught and convicted of crimes then they should be deported back to Slovakia where they come from. That seems perfectly reasonable and i think the majority of the public would agree with that.

Also, and i say this from my observations, why is it you never get any Malaysians running round in gangs committing crimes? Or Koreans? Or are some ethnic groups more law-abiding and hard-working than others?

Rinty · Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 11:09 pm Post subject:

linoleum · Confirmed TROLL Joined: 06 Apr 2009 Posts: 103

govanhell was an area in decline for many years in recent years most of the problems in that area were caused by violent gangs based on race (i'm sure that must be racist). a bad situation has been made considerably worse by the arrival of significant numbers of roma criminals involved in gangs, robbery,child prostitution,benefit fraud and violence.

autobiographical dave and rinty (most likely the same person) have wrung their hands and pissed their panties about this as it does not fit into their PC and liberal agenda where blame is laid at the door of the state,the police,the council and the bnp.

they then in a vindictive and poisonous fashion accuse people of racism and that they are liars. this inturn means that the nhs proessionals who work in this area are also racists and liars.

you couldnae make it up.

Rinty · Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 9:58 am Post subject:

Or....

Rinty hasnt denied the problems in Govanhill, in fact has added information to the debate.

I am reading Macmaffia right now. It is clearly a book that doesnt suggest that there is a racial element to the criminals or even that there ethnicity leads to criminality.

It lays the blame at the hands of former communist regimes, neo-liberal hegemony and world institutions.

If all you are saying is that govanhill has problems, that some of those problems involve gangs, that the gangs have a race divion element, the large influxes of immigrants have exacerbated the problems, then NO-ONE is disagreeing with you.

To pretend that anyone IS denying this or disputing this is all in you head.

What the debate is about is why this is happening, to you and jamesie it is simply because they are Roma, and the answer to is to deport them and/or stop them coming in.

At least I think ii is, but neither of you have the balls to actually state your position, scared that it might be ripped apart in the debate you just make vague hints.

Dave Coull · Independentista Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 2809

Rinty (Jim Monaghan) is a member of a political party, Solidarity. He is also a friend of the most well-known member of that party, Tommy Sheridan. Although I've been aware of Tommy for about twenty years, since the time when we were both actively involved in the anti-poll-tax movement, I have never been a fan. Our different attitudes towards the Solidarity party, and towards its most well-known member Tommy Sheridan, are just two of the many differences between myself and Rinty.

At 7pm on Tuesday the 7th of April,

Dave Coull · Independentista Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 2809

I repeatedly asked Jamesieboy what constructive suggestions he had for the problems of the Govanhill area of Glasgow. After ignoring this question for as long as he possibly could,

jamesieboy · Helping with the Count Joined: 15 Feb 2009 Posts: 327

They should be deported if they commit crimes in this country.

Why should taxpayers subsidise them in jail here? Do a quick poll and i think you'll find most people would agree with that.

Those who arrive here should not do so like ships (did i say ships?) in the night. Checks should be made. They should be a lot more exhaustive than they've been. If they're clean, fine.

It is obvious that the authorities have been at fault here, not because they are racists, or bad, or nasty but because they have been naive. And that is true of a number of people on this list.

You cant expect 2-3000 people from another sub-culture to arrive here and set up shop in an already (deprived, by western standards) area, not be able to speak English and then everything will be hunky dory because, hey! the PC mob says it will be.

Do they install in their children a set of ethics that says stealing is wrong?
Or do they encourage their children to steal and not respect the rights and property of others?

Glasgow City Council, and others, have been totally unprepared for this. Someone has got the word out amongst the Roma when they were back home and told them that Glasgow/Scotland/the UK wil be a soft touch and you can get loads of benefits here.

And you know what, they will probably have been right.

Dave Coull · Independentista Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 2809

Rejecting the idea of "blaming the authorities", linoleum condemned the

Dave Coull · Independentista Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 2809

I thought so. It turns out that what Jamesieboy has advocated is what is already happening.

jamesieboy · Helping with the Count Joined: 15 Feb 2009 Posts: 327

Dave - if you remember I named the respected Tory MSP who was a councillor in the south side, so you have selective memory.

He listens to his constituents.

I'm glad the government is getting rid of these murdering scum and i think it must have something to with pressure from the public, maybe!

Dave Coull · Independentista Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 2809

jamesieboy · Helping with the Count Joined: 15 Feb 2009 Posts: 327

I mentioned Bill Aitken's (MSP) concerns about he situation in Govanhill ages ago. And quite frankly I can't be bothered going over old ground yet again.

My concerns and the concerns of many people I have spoken to who know the area well turn out to be genuine.

I'm glad Rinty is coming round to that point.

The facts are that a large group of monocultural east Europeans arrived here a few years ago and were housed in Govanhill. The authorities were unprepared for them and, I suspect, didn't even know where Slovakia was, what its major cities were, what language they spoke or what its history was.

It is not racist to say that this group have a tradition of not conforming, of being isolated and living in communities that are apart from mainstream society in countries like Romania, Bulgaria, Macedonia and Serbia where, rightly or wrongly, they are vilified.

In other words they knew absolutly nothing.

The cultural norms that this group were used to were at odds with most in the indigenous community, including the large number of Asians who live there. Anecdotal evidence and a number of newspaper reports pointed to large amounts of rubbish being left in the street and closes and backyards, and reports of gang violence based on ethnicity became commonplace.

It should be remembered that very few in this group spoke English and their language is not the most spoken tongue in the world. Apparently they speak a romany dialect as well as, obviously, Slovakian.

The arrival of this group put enormous pressure on the health services and social work departments in the City of Glasgow.

I would point out that many east Europeans have come to this country to work and have had no problems and have caused no problems. Arguably they have filled in vacancies in work that the native population are not that keen to do. The have come from countries like Poland, Czech Republic and Slovakia but from conventional ways of life not that different from our own. Most have the benefit of an education in their own countries in which English is one of the languages taught. (The old Soviet education system was generally good, it valued science particularly and produced Yuri Gagarin).

The Roma have suffered a largely sub-standard education system, often apart from the rest of the communities they live in, and probably as a result of that have never really valued education due to constantly living on the edge of society.

I have since spent a lot of time reading a whole variety of articles on this and can't make up my mind whether these people are really just their own worst enemy or whether they are truly discriminated against right from the start as second class citizens and act accordingly.

What is sure is in this country they will find much better treatment than what they are used to. They will not find nearly as much discrimination but how long that will last is not clear. The one thing they will need to do is realise that they are lucky and start changing their attitudes to reflect that.

Dave Coull · Independentista Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 2809