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Morph · Our Scotland = 2nd Job! Joined: 19 Jan 2006 Posts: 916

But Luke thats the point- poll tax is the perfect example, if you look at the Lothian question you would think that poor English MPs are being strong handed by an unseen Scottish mafia in London.

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"An oppressive government is to be more feared than a tiger"

Alasdair · Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:24 am Post subject:

Holebender · Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 7:04 am Post subject:

mairead · Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 8:27 am Post subject:

I wholeheartedly agree with you Alasdair.
There are insufficient numbers of Scots, Welsh and N Irland MP's combined, to make any impact on what the majority of MP's (English) do or say Westminster is ruled by English MP's, and always has been.
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I fear not hell, nor English strife,
For Scotland, I will give my life

Luke P · Gaining a Reputation Joined: 03 Jul 2009 Posts: 218

It's just demographics! 84% of the UK population live within the delimitations of the river Tweed and Offa's Dyke, referred to by some as 'England', the inhabitants' demonym being 'English'. These people have a right to 84% of the representation in parliament. They don't have it - they have about 81% of it. Fair enough - I'm not complaining. Personally I wouldn't have objected to reducing it a little more to reflect the greater per capita landmass of Scotland, but after devolution it is pointless and unfair.

On what basis can any minority grouping claim foul play for not being dominant? That would be a complete perversion of democracy and logic.

The East Anglians could be up in arms that their votes don't decide anything... as could the Northumbrians... or the people in my village... etc. (these latter groups, of course, not enjoying he luxury of home rule). Blacks could say white MPs always decide everything, but it wouldn't be right to have a black majority parliament when only 2% of the people are black; less so when there is a 'black parliament' to deal with black business outside Croydon. (for example)

Parliament is divided along party lines, not 'national' lines. Any notion of a pan-English political agenda in Westminster is nonsense (although it could emerge over the West Lothian question) as is any notion of a cohesive pan-Englishness although that may be forced by separatisms. The notion that any given Scottish MP represents you - because you are Scottish - is similarly nonsense. My local MP (in England) is Scottish but does as bad a job as anyone of representing me - actually he's quite decent for a Tory.

(you are right tho that the whips need got rid of)

Luke P · Gaining a Reputation Joined: 03 Jul 2009 Posts: 218

Alasdair · Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 4:24 pm Post subject:

Luke P · Gaining a Reputation Joined: 03 Jul 2009 Posts: 218

Holebender · Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 10:22 am Post subject:

Who argues that? Nationalists argue that there are too many Scottish MPs in Westminster; 59 too many!
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"My instinct is to agree with your opinion of his verse, but I've never so much as glanced at it." - agentmancuso

mairead · Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:06 am Post subject:

Back on topic for a moment.
The words to Flower of Scotland are quite stirring, it's the singing of it by a large crowd that turns it in to a dirge.
_________________
I fear not hell, nor English strife,
For Scotland, I will give my life

Stevie · Independentist Joined: 22 Nov 2008 Posts: 1179

The words to 'Scots Wha Hae', by Robert Burns are stirring but the SNP sing it like it's a funeral march.

It's a marching tune, legend has it played as Bruce marched on the field of Bannockburn.

Scots Wha Hae

Scots, wha hae wi' Wallace bled,
Scots wham Bruce has often led,
Welcome to your gorie bed,
Or to Victorie!
Now's the day, and now's the hour;
See the front o' battle lour,
See approach proud Edward's pow'r
Chains and slaverie!

Wha will be a traitor knave?
Wha can fill a coward's grave?
Wha sae base as be a slave?
Let him turn and flee!
Wha, for Scotland's King and Law,
Freedom's sword will strongly draw,
Freeman stand, or Freeman fa',
Let him on wi, me!

By Oppression's woes and pains!
By your sons in servile chains!
We will drain our dearest veins,
But they shall be free!
Lay the proud Usurpers low!
Tyrants fall in every foe!
Liberty's in every blow!
Let us do or die!

ROBERT BURNS
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Every man dies, not every man really lives.

Alba gu bràth!

mairead · Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 5:21 am Post subject:

Aye legend may have it that way, but it wasn't written for hundreds of years after Bannockburn.
I agree though, that like FoS it also gets turned into a dirge. Mind you the biggest dirge of all has to be GStQ.
A good marching and inoffensive song in my opinion is Scotland the Brave.
_________________
I fear not hell, nor English strife,
For Scotland, I will give my life

Stevie · Independentist Joined: 22 Nov 2008 Posts: 1179

Yeh, but it wasn't written by Robert Burns.

You say that the tune wasn't written 'for hundreds of years afterwards', where did you find that info?
_________________
Every man dies, not every man really lives.

Alba gu bràth!

mairead · Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 11:41 am Post subject:

Well It's my understanding that it was written By Robert Burns, long after Bannockburn.It is certainly included in his works in the old book of the complete works and songs of Robert Burns which I havejust checked, and the correct title is "Bruce's Address to his Army at Bannockburn.
_________________
I fear not hell, nor English strife,
For Scotland, I will give my life

Holebender · Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 3:19 pm Post subject:

Large numbers of Burns' songs are reworked and improved versions of earlier folk songs. They all carry Burns' name because of the work he did collecting the original songs and giving the benefit of his poetic genius but most were in existence in some form long before Burns.
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"My instinct is to agree with your opinion of his verse, but I've never so much as glanced at it." - agentmancuso

Stevie · Independentist Joined: 22 Nov 2008 Posts: 1179

I was referring to the music, 'Hey tooti tooti' (I think that's the spelling) is the music reputedly played at Bannockburn.
_________________
Every man dies, not every man really lives.

Alba gu bràth!

Dave Coull · Independentista Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 2809

Stevie · Independentist Joined: 22 Nov 2008 Posts: 1179

Aye David.
_________________
Every man dies, not every man really lives.

Alba gu bràth!

Aventinian · Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 5:46 pm Post subject:

babykitten · Activist Joined: 21 Aug 2007 Posts: 150