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Dave Coull
Independentista
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2809
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 Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:22 pm Post subject: Re: British soldiers asked whether they will open fire on pu |
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| landg wrote: | | you are living in a PC world of fairies and goblins if you believe that all of those innocent bystanding protesters were just being picked on by nasty 'brits' |
I suggest you try reading again what I actually wrote. | Quote: | | There most certainly wasn't any "effective enemy fire" on that day, and it is questionable whether any actual "open fire" order was given before the troops started shooting. However, while there probably wasn't an actual command, there was a culture of contempt towards anybody protesting against the established order, for whatever reason. |
Where do you see the words "nasty Brits" in what I wrote? Nowhere. It's all in your own head. I was a member of the British armed forces for five years. I know how easy it is to get caught up in a culture of contempt. I even, once, got told off by an officer for being a bit too enthusiastic about putting the boot in (in South Yemen, not Northern Ireland). Do I blame individual soldiers for what happened on "Bloody Sunday"? Not really. I blame the system, I blame the government, I blame those higher up the chain of command, more than I blame the ordinary soldiers. Nevertheless, the fact is, | Quote: | | By opening fire indiscriminately on unarmed protesters, those troops contributed hugely to the later recruitment and bombing campaigns of the IRA. |
| landg wrote: | | it's not englands or eire's problem but BRITAINS |
Scotland is going to be independent in the fairly near future. Neither the SNP, nor any of the other political organisations which favour an independent Scotland, make any claims whatsoever outside the present boundaries of Scotland. When Scotland becomes independent, it will be independent of Northern Ireland, as well as independent of England. An independent Scotland will want to be on friendly terms with the neighbours, while not interfering in their business. What the people of Northern Ireland decide to do after Scotland becomes independent will be up to them, at least to some extent. I say "at least to some extent" because, of course, while they can continue to be United with England, and while they can choose closer relations with the Republic of Ireland, and while they can choose some form of quasi-independence, and while they could even choose some sort of condominium status, the one thing which would not be "up to them" would be joining Scotland. The reason that wouldn't be up to them is obvious - it would be up to us, and the people of Scotland would emphatically reject any such suggestion.
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landg
This is Ma' Life!
Joined: 05 Aug 2009
Posts: 617
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| Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 8:54 pm Post subject: Re: British soldiers asked whether they will open fire on pu |
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| Dave Coull wrote: | | landg wrote: | | you are living in a PC world of fairies and goblins if you believe that all of those innocent bystanding protesters were just being picked on by nasty 'brits' |
I suggest you try reading again what I actually wrote. | Quote: | | There most certainly wasn't any "effective enemy fire" on that day, and it is questionable whether any actual "open fire" order was given before the troops started shooting. However, while there probably wasn't an actual command, there was a culture of contempt towards anybody protesting against the established order, for whatever reason. |
Where do you see the words "nasty Brits" in what I wrote? Nowhere. It's all in your own head. I was a member of the British armed forces for five years. I know how easy it is to get caught up in a culture of contempt. I even, once, got told off by an officer for being a bit too enthusiastic about putting the boot in (in South Yemen, not Northern Ireland). Do I blame individual soldiers for what happened on "Bloody Sunday"? Not really. I blame the system, I blame the government, I blame those higher up the chain of command, more than I blame the ordinary soldiers. Nevertheless, the fact is, | Quote: | | By opening fire indiscriminately on unarmed protesters, those troops contributed hugely to the later recruitment and bombing campaigns of the IRA. |
| landg wrote: | | it's not englands or eire's problem but BRITAINS |
Scotland is going to be independent in the fairly near future. Neither the SNP, nor any of the other political organisations which favour an independent Scotland, make any claims whatsoever outside the present boundaries of Scotland. When Scotland becomes independent, it will be independent of Northern Ireland, as well as independent of England. An independent Scotland will want to be on friendly terms with the neighbours, while not interfering in their business. What the people of Northern Ireland decide to do after Scotland becomes independent will be up to them, at least to some extent. I say "at least to some extent" because, of course, while they can continue to be United with England, and while they can choose closer relations with the Republic of Ireland, and while they can choose some form of quasi-independence, and while they could even choose some sort of condominium status, the one thing which would not be "up to them" would be joining Scotland. The reason that wouldn't be up to them is obvious - it would be up to us, and the people of Scotland would emphatically reject any such suggestion. |
you said brits or was it brit, no matter, those are regarded as derogatory terms for british (scottish, english, welsh,ulster) from people of a certain 'mindset'. it gives me an insight into your slant on things. |
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landg
This is Ma' Life!
Joined: 05 Aug 2009
Posts: 617
Location: awaiting approval by a mod/admin
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| Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 8:57 pm Post subject: Re: British soldiers asked whether they will open fire on pu |
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[quote="Dave CoullScotland is going to be independent in the fairly near future. Neither the SNP, nor any of the other political organisations which favour an independent Scotland, make any claims whatsoever outside the present boundaries of Scotland. When Scotland becomes independent, it will be independent of Northern Ireland, as well as independent of England. An independent Scotland will want to be on friendly terms with the neighbours, while not interfering in their business. What the people of Northern Ireland decide to do after Scotland becomes independent will be up to them, at least to some extent. I say "at least to some extent" because, of course, while they can continue to be United with England, and while they can choose closer relations with the Republic of Ireland, and while they can choose some form of quasi-independence, and while they could even choose some sort of condominium status, the one thing which would not be "up to them" would be joining Scotland. The reason that wouldn't be up to them is obvious - it would be up to us, and the people of Scotland would emphatically reject any such suggestion.[/quote]
nothing more than idle speculation and not relevant. until such times we are not dealing with Gt. britain as a whole, as it stands, your view is damp confetti after a rainy wedding. |
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Dave Coull
Independentista
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2809
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| Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 10:27 pm Post subject: Re: British soldiers asked whether they will open fire on pu |
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| landg wrote: | | you are living in a PC world of fairies and goblins if you believe that all of those innocent bystanding protesters were just being picked on by nasty 'brits' |
I wrote | Quote: | | Where do you see the words "nasty Brits" in what I wrote? Nowhere. It's all in your own head. |
| landg wrote: | | you said brits |
Have you considered seeing a doctor about these delusions you're suffering from? | landg wrote: | | or was it brit |
Neither. I don't use the expression. This is easily proved. Look up at the top of this page. You will see that this "Our Scotland" forum has a "Search" facility. Even a slow learner like you might be able to figure out how to use it. You hit the "Search" button; then, in the "Search for keywords" box that comes up, type the word you are looking for; in the "Search for Author" box, type "Dave Coull"; against the "display results as" sign, click "posts"; then hit "search". If you do that, just a few posts of mine will come up. If you click on any one of these, you will find that, in every case, the word "Brit" in it was not in fact said by me, but was being QUOTED by me from something that SOMEBODY ELSE had said. (By the way, now that I have just quoted you using this word, this post will, of course, appear in any such search.)
Last edited by Dave Coull on Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:08 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Dave Coull
Independentista
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2809
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| Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 10:55 pm Post subject: Re: British soldiers asked whether they will open fire on pu |
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I wrote | Quote: | | Scotland is going to be independent in the fairly near future. Neither the SNP, nor any of the other political organisations which favour an independent Scotland, make any claims whatsoever outside the present boundaries of Scotland. When Scotland becomes independent, it will be independent of Northern Ireland, as well as independent of England. An independent Scotland will want to be on friendly terms with the neighbours, while not interfering in their business. What the people of Northern Ireland decide to do after Scotland becomes independent will be up to them, at least to some extent. I say "at least to some extent" because, of course, while they can continue to be United with England, and while they can choose closer relations with the Republic of Ireland, and while they can choose some form of quasi-independence, and while they could even choose some sort of condominium status, the one thing which would not be "up to them" would be joining Scotland. The reason that wouldn't be up to them is obvious - it would be up to us, and the people of Scotland would emphatically reject any such suggestion. |
| landg wrote: | | nothing more than idle speculation |
No, it's already more than just "idle speculation". For example, folk in the top ranks of the Civil Service in Scotland, folk who are paid by all of us to serve society, are already making contingency plans based on the likelihood that Scotland will become independent in the fairly near future. While some folk in Northern Ireland may be a bit slower at getting their heads around this, it would be quite surprising if some of the more intelligent folk in Northern Ireland had not already begun to think about the effect on their province when Scotland becomes independent. |
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landg
This is Ma' Life!
Joined: 05 Aug 2009
Posts: 617
Location: awaiting approval by a mod/admin
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| Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 8:03 am Post subject: Re: British soldiers asked whether they will open fire on pu |
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| Dave Coull wrote: | I wrote | Quote: | | Scotland is going to be independent in the fairly near future. Neither the SNP, nor any of the other political organisations which favour an independent Scotland, make any claims whatsoever outside the present boundaries of Scotland. When Scotland becomes independent, it will be independent of Northern Ireland, as well as independent of England. An independent Scotland will want to be on friendly terms with the neighbours, while not interfering in their business. What the people of Northern Ireland decide to do after Scotland becomes independent will be up to them, at least to some extent. I say "at least to some extent" because, of course, while they can continue to be United with England, and while they can choose closer relations with the Republic of Ireland, and while they can choose some form of quasi-independence, and while they could even choose some sort of condominium status, the one thing which would not be "up to them" would be joining Scotland. The reason that wouldn't be up to them is obvious - it would be up to us, and the people of Scotland would emphatically reject any such suggestion. |
| landg wrote: | | nothing more than idle speculation |
No, it's already more than just "idle speculation". For example, folk in the top ranks of the Civil Service in Scotland, folk who are paid by all of us to serve society, are already making contingency plans based on the likelihood that Scotland will become independent in the fairly near future. While some folk in Northern Ireland may be a bit slower at getting their heads around this, it would be quite surprising if some of the more intelligent folk in Northern Ireland had not already begun to think about the effect on their province when Scotland becomes independent. |
'contingency' plan, something that may happen, in other words, specualtion. it remains unlikely particularly when swinney is making big,bad budget cuts just now.people remeber. now it's clearer why oppostion parties did not want to ruffle too many feathers over mckasskil, best just to let the minority snp 'government' stay in power for a year or two and let them make all the horrible decsions on raising council tax, scrapping rail links, reducing health and teaching budgets.people remember. |
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Holebender
Ready For Afterlife!
Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 2752
Location: Here or There
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| Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:26 am Post subject: |
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Any intelligent observer will know that Scotland's government only gets to spend the pocket money it gets from the people who really control us. Any anger at budget cuts will ultimately be directed at the people who control the money pot, not the people tasked with spending their allocation. People are far more likely to demand more control over Scotland's revenue (i.e. more independence) than to blame supporters of independence for the situation we find ourselves in.
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Dave Coull
Independentista
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2809
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| Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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I was a member of the British armed forces for five years. I know how easy it is to get caught up in a culture of contempt towards the local population. I was even (in Southern Yemen, not Northern Ireland), on one occasion, reprimanded for being a bit too enthusiastic about putting the boot in. As far as the events of "Bloody Sunday" in Derry are concerned, I'm inclined to blame the system, the government, and those higher up the chain of command, more than the ordinary soldiers. Nevertheless, "landg", that poor victim of a fevered imagination and an inability to read properly, wrote | Quote: | | you believe that all of those innocent bystanding protesters were just being picked on by nasty 'brits' |
I asked | Quote: | | Where do you see the words "nasty Brits" in what I wrote? Nowhere. It's all in your own head. |
| landg wrote: | | you said brits |
I have provided clear evidence that in fact I said no such thing, as anybody can check using the "Search" facility so helpfully provided by this forum. So, before we go on to discuss anything else, "landg", admit you have been proved wrong about that. It won't hurt too much. |
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landg
This is Ma' Life!
Joined: 05 Aug 2009
Posts: 617
Location: awaiting approval by a mod/admin
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| Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Holebender wrote: | | Any intelligent observer will know that Scotland's government only gets to spend the pocket money it gets from the people who really control us. Any anger at budget cuts will ultimately be directed at the people who control the money pot, not the people tasked with spending their allocation. People are far more likely to demand more control over Scotland's revenue (i.e. more independence) than to blame supporters of independence for the situation we find ourselves in. |
you think highly of the average scottish voter, too highly, what was it churchil said about democracy, spend 5 mins with a voter.
labour will be voted out at the next election because of the credit crunch etc. etc. etc. the voter will automatically just vote for someone other than the party in power who is f***ing it up. you think scottish voters are cleverer than that?
the snp will be out, mark my words. and they are a minority govt., they do not have anything like the majority of the govt. westminster.
bye bye alex. |
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landg
This is Ma' Life!
Joined: 05 Aug 2009
Posts: 617
Location: awaiting approval by a mod/admin
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| Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Dave Coull wrote: | I was a member of the British armed forces for five years. I know how easy it is to get caught up in a culture of contempt towards the local population. I was even (in Southern Yemen, not Northern Ireland), on one occasion, reprimanded for being a bit too enthusiastic about putting the boot in. As far as the events of "Bloody Sunday" in Derry are concerned, I'm inclined to blame the system, the government, and those higher up the chain of command, more than the ordinary soldiers. Nevertheless, "landg", that poor victim of a fevered imagination and an inability to read properly, wrote | Quote: | | you believe that all of those innocent bystanding protesters were just being picked on by nasty 'brits' |
I asked | Quote: | | Where do you see the words "nasty Brits" in what I wrote? Nowhere. It's all in your own head. |
| landg wrote: | | you said brits |
I have provided clear evidence that in fact I said no such thing, as anybody can check using the "Search" facility so helpfully provided by this forum. So, before we go on to discuss anything else, "landg", admit you have been proved wrong about that. It won't hurt too much. |
i'll be like my chums on oor-scotland. |
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Dave Coull
Independentista
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2809
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| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 12:26 am Post subject: |
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| landg wrote: | | you said brits |
I wrote | Quote: | | I have provided clear evidence that in fact I said no such thing, as anybody can check using the "Search" facility so helpfully provided by this forum. So, before we go on to discuss anything else, "landg", admit you have been proved wrong about that. It won't hurt too much. |
| landg wrote: | | i'll be like my chums on oor-scotland. |
No.
You won't.
Sure, there are plenty of us who won't change our opinions, but this isn't a matter of opinion, this is a matter of fact. You have been proved wrong on a matter of fact. Most folk would be prepared to admit it. |
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Shagpile
This is Ma' Life!
Joined: 03 Jan 2006
Posts: 794
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| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 12:31 pm Post subject: Re: British soldiers asked whether they will open fire on pu |
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| landg wrote: | | of course they should open fire again in similar circumstances. as for less soldiers and more 'protesters' being killed that day? soldiers can shoot better than the scummy 'protesters'.probably had better guns as well. |
Well that's one answer "Luke P".   |
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babykitten
Activist
Joined: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 150
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| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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| landg wrote: |
for the police to open fire it would have to be very serious circumstances, national emergency, food or water rationing due to shortage or terrorism. maybe something like trying to keep many people in one place for their own safety, natural disaister, weather extremes. |
What, like having a table leg under your arm, or looking a bit swarthy and living in the same building as a suspected terrorist? |
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babykitten
Activist
Joined: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 150
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| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 5:56 pm Post subject: Re: British soldiers asked whether they will open fire on pu |
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| landg wrote: | | people remember. |
If there's one thing people don't do, it's remember. Sadly. |
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landg
This is Ma' Life!
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| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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| babykitten wrote: | | landg wrote: |
for the police to open fire it would have to be very serious circumstances, national emergency, food or water rationing due to shortage or terrorism. maybe something like trying to keep many people in one place for their own safety, natural disaister, weather extremes. |
What, like having a table leg under your arm, or looking a bit swarthy and living in the same building as a suspected terrorist? |
and refusing to put the table leg down when asked by armed cops or running away when asked to top by police.
their only guilt was utter stupidity.
armed cop says put down the table leg, I f***ing DO IT. |
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babykitten
Activist
Joined: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 150
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| Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:37 am Post subject: |
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| landg wrote: | | babykitten wrote: | | landg wrote: |
for the police to open fire it would have to be very serious circumstances, national emergency, food or water rationing due to shortage or terrorism. maybe something like trying to keep many people in one place for their own safety, natural disaister, weather extremes. |
What, like having a table leg under your arm, or looking a bit swarthy and living in the same building as a suspected terrorist? |
and refusing to put the table leg down when asked by armed cops or running away when asked to top by police.
their only guilt was utter stupidity.
armed cop says put down the table leg, I f***ing DO IT. |
Please provide proof that Harry Stanley refused to put the table leg down. The word of the officers is not good enough. We all know the police lie. They are only human beings after all and humans lie.
We know for a fact that the police have lied repeatedly over Jean Charles de Menezes. He was not running away from the police and was only engaged by the police once on the train.
Your assertion that he ran away after being asked to stop is nonsense.
We also have ample evidence of police lies in the death of the G20 newspaper seller, whose name escapes me at the moment.
It really is incredibly foolish to believe that authorities will only use deadly force as a last resort.
I've never really managed to grasp why people are so confident of the infallibility of authority. The belief that the police/army/teachers/government can never make mistakes and will never break laws or rules in order to make their life easier. It really is the sign of an intellectual lightweight if you have such naive views. |
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Shagpile
This is Ma' Life!
Joined: 03 Jan 2006
Posts: 794
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| Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 11:49 am Post subject: |
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| landg wrote: | and refusing to put the table leg down when asked by armed cops or running away when asked to top by police.
their only guilt was utter stupidity.
armed cop says put down the table leg, I f***ing DO IT. |
Well the judge said that both policemen were lying....... and they still got off with it.
Lesson..... lie like hell. If you're a copper........ you'll simply get away with murder. So you wont need to wory about receiving a compassionate release, nor rotting in jail either; if it comes to that. |
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Shagpile
This is Ma' Life!
Joined: 03 Jan 2006
Posts: 794
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| Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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| babykitten wrote: | | We know for a fact that the police have lied repeatedly over Jean Charles de Menezes. He was not running away from the police and was only engaged by the police once on the train. |
He was actually surrounded, by two armed police and shot by the one who entered the train who passed another armed colleague covering that door. Opposite him was another armed officer, covering that door. Five armed police all in all.
How could their intelligence be so 'flawed', how could all the officers concerned mistake his identity?
Of course they all knew he was in violation of his visa.
This stinks so much. |
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Alasdair
Our Scotland = 2nd Job!
Joined: 01 May 2008
Posts: 1021
Location: Clydesdale
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| Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Shagpile wrote: | Of course they all knew he was in violation of his visa.
This stinks so much. |
Are you suggesting the boy was shot because of his visa violation?!!
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The Lithgae Jambo
Helping with the Count
Joined: 05 Jul 2006
Posts: 362
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| Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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| landg wrote: | | babykitten wrote: | | landg wrote: |
for the police to open fire it would have to be very serious circumstances, national emergency, food or water rationing due to shortage or terrorism. maybe something like trying to keep many people in one place for their own safety, natural disaister, weather extremes. |
What, like having a table leg under your arm, or looking a bit swarthy and living in the same building as a suspected terrorist? |
and refusing to put the table leg down when asked by armed cops or running away when asked to top by police.
their only guilt was utter stupidity.
armed cop says put down the table leg, I f***ing DO IT. |
Not so easy to f***ing do it when you're deaf or hard of hearing as I understand Harry Stanley was.
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