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Fidget
Standing in a Council Ward
Joined: 21 Jan 2007
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The Lithgae Jambo
Helping with the Count
Joined: 05 Jul 2006
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 Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Fidget wrote: | No they aren't.
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In other words, they have the same status in Scotland as English banknotes have. Legal currency, but not legal tender.
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Dave Coull
Independentista
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Fidget wrote: | | Scotland and England united to form a single kingdom.. called Great Britain |
How come Scotland and England have always retained completely different legal systems?
How come there has never been a Church of Britain? |
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Stevie
Independentist
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Fidget wrote: | | No they aren't. |
I see you're soaring through the intellectual skies of argument and forging across the rushing heady streams of knowledge.
Bravo.
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Holebender
Ready For Afterlife!
Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 2752
Location: Here or There
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| Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:32 am Post subject: |
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| Fidget wrote: | You may research as many newspapers as you like. But the fact is that Scotland and England united to form a single kingdom... called Great Britain. Not called the United Kingdom. The United Kingdom was born when the Kingdom of Ireland united with the Kingdom of Great Britain.
However much that displeases you, it's there in black and white. |
There in black and white... indeed.
It's called the United Kingdom, not the United Kingdoms, because, as you say, the old kingdoms united to form a new kingdom. When Ireland joined all that changed was the name (from the United Kingdom of Great Britain to the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland). It was still a single, united, kingdom. When Ireland left, the name changed again, but it was still a single, united, kingdom.
Right now there are two ancient kingdoms within the UK and that's what makes it a united kingdom. If either of those kingdoms leaves there will no longer be a united kingdom, there will only be a single kingdom with a couple of other countries.
I followed your advice and consulted the Act of Union and here's what it says: | Quote: | Article 1
I. That the Two Kingdoms of Scotland and England, shall upon the 1st May next ensuing the date hereof, and forever after, be United into One Kingdom by the Name of GREAT BRITAIN: And that the Ensigns Armorial of the said United Kingdom be such as Her Majesty shall think fit, and used in all Flags, Banners, Standards and Ensigns both at Sea and Land.
Article 2
II. That the Succession to the Monarchy of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and of the Dominions thereunto belonging after Her Most Sacred Majesty, and in default of Issue of Her Majesty be, remain and continue to the Most Excellent Princess Sophia Electoress and Dutchess Dowager of Hanover... |
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Stevie
Independentist
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Posts: 1179
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| Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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I'm a republican and all this kingdom stuff is irrelevant once we have a Scottish republic.
Viva la republicà.
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Rinty
Jim Baxter is God...........really!!!!
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 3601
Location: SW Scotland
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| Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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In terms of the EU, the "UK" that entered the EU is the one that has Scotland, England, Wales and NI. So the arguments about what each term means or meant is pointless.
Other parts of "britain" such as the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands are not in the EU. But they are included in old descriptions of 'kingdoms'.
The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is a member of the EU.
It is pretty clear that Scotland would be in the EU unless it opted out, which would take negotiations a la Greenland. Even just statying in will require a lot a paperwork and a lot of lawyers but will taken as granted. I dont think the remainder of the UK will have the readjustment and renegotiating that Scotland will have. They will be mainly 'as is' but with less assets, land and people, so will probably just continue 'as is'.
I think Russel's stab at a beginning of a conversation is a reasonable start, and he does bring up questions that tend to be used as distractions by pro-union commentators. |
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mairead
'Our Scotland' Fossil
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
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Location: Argyll, Alba
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| Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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if Scottish banknotes are not legal tender then Someone must have palmed one off to me in error last week, and I must have passed it on in error to the shop that accepted it. 
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Stevie
Independentist
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Bravehand wrote: | | Fidget wrote: | | Since Scottish banknotes technically aren't worth the paper they're printed on in terms of being legal tender |
Oh well, how about giving me all your Scottish bank notes and I'll give you the same weight in paper in return... no. Thought not.
Scottish banknotes are legal tender... think before you speak. |
Still willing to give you the paper weight for your Scottish banknotes...
Actually, the silly 'not legal tender' thingy you said :
They are legal, and it's not illegal to tender them, thus they are legal tender.
Fidget with a widget, not your digits.
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Fidget
Standing in a Council Ward
Joined: 21 Jan 2007
Posts: 556
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| Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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"Scottish Banknotes are legal currency – i.e. they are approved by the UK Parliament. However, Scottish Bank notes are not Legal Tender, not even in Scotland. In fact, no banknote whatsoever (including Bank of England notes!) qualifies for the term 'legal tender' north of the border and the Scottish economy seems to manage without that legal protection."
That is from the website of the committee of scotland's clearing bankers:
http://www.scotbanks.org.uk/legal_position.php
So.. as you were saying....? |
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Stevie
Independentist
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Posts: 1179
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| Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | The legal position with regard to Scottish Banknotes is as follows:
Scottish Banknotes are legal currency – i.e. they are approved by the UK Parliament. However, Scottish Bank notes are not Legal Tender, not even in Scotland. In fact, no banknote whatsoever (including Bank of England notes!) qualifies for the term 'legal tender' north of the border and the Scottish economy seems to manage without that legal protection.
HM Treasury is responsible for defining which notes have ‘legal tender’ status within the United Kingdom and the following extract from Bank of England’s website may help to clarify what is meant by “legal tender” and how little practical meaning the phrase has in everyday transactions.
“The term legal tender does not in itself govern the acceptability of banknotes in transactions. Whether or not notes have legal tender status, their acceptability as a means of payment is essentially a matter for agreement between the parties involved. Legal tender has a very narrow technical meaning in relation to the settlement of debt. If a debtor pays in legal tender the exact amount he owes under the terms of a contract, he has good defence in law if he is subsequently sued for non-payment of the debt. In ordinary everyday transactions, the term ‘legal tender’ has very little practical application.”
(Ref. www.bankofengland.co.uk/banknotes/about/faqs.htm.)
It is also interesting to note that, if the strict rules governing legal tender were to be observed in a transaction, then the exact amount due would need to be tendered since no change can be demanded.
The majority of banknotes circulating in Scotland are issued by Scottish banks. Scottish notes circulate and are accepted quite freely in Scotland and, for the most part, they are also readily accepted in England & Wales, although branches of Scottish banks there may not issue them. However, you should not rely absolutely on Scottish notes being accepted outside Scotland and this is particularly true when travelling abroad. Our general advice would be not to carry large amounts of banknotes of any description and to make use of facilities such as travellers’ cheques, credit/debit cards and ATM cards for access to funds whilst abroad. |
Since you seem to be correct as far as the term 'legal tender', then I'll concede you're right and I'm wrong... but do you have a point? Or are you just desperately searching for silly ways to undermine the 'nats'?
Of course you are and it's irrelevant.
Scottish banknotes will be legal tender in an independent Scotland.
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Alasdair
Our Scotland = 2nd Job!
Joined: 01 May 2008
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Location: Clydesdale
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babykitten
Activist
Joined: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 150
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| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Bravehand wrote: | | landg wrote: | | i know he's round but alex sure likes to have some cake, eat it and take some home as well. |
I applaud you for the genius of your argument. |
LOL, it is utterly moronic, isn't it? |
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babykitten
Activist
Joined: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 150
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| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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It was me that said NO notes are legal tender in Scotland, not Bravehand. And I am correct. No currently produced notes are legal tender in Scotland, not even English notes.
However, all notes produced today are legal CURRENCY.
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