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Stevie
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 Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 11:06 am Post subject: |
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Best off to England where you're happiest then, it's all too the good that the Brits are seen as being just that... Brits.
So long, farewell, auf Wiedersehen, goodbye.
It a jolly good idea, just do it quick as you can.
Oh by the way, Celtic can f**k off too.
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William_Cleland
I need ma own bl**dy forum!
Joined: 22 Apr 2007
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| Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 5:40 am Post subject: |
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Ibrox and Parkhead are not suddenly going to be moved to England. Rangers and Celtic are inherently Scottish clubs whether you like it or not and Scottish football being unable to accommodate the two best supported clubs who between them attract a majority of the spectator interest in Scotland would ultimately lead to the death of Scottish football as a separate entity including the national team. Spite filled nationalists who can't see that will wind up destroying what they claim to love if they ever get their way.
As for why this issue is surfacing now, the background is two fold. Scotland's UEFA coefficient is plummeting so automatic qualification for the Champions League will soon be a thing of the past. The Old Firm will fall even further back in terms of quality relative to top European teams once they can no longer budget for Champions League entry every season and the gap in quality with the rest of the SPL will narrow considerably. Secondly, the ability of Scottish clubs to run up multimillion debts in a risky speculate to accumulate sort of way is now a thing of the past after the credit crunch. Hence why Lloyds TSB (in the shape of their HBOS subsidiary) have placed a director on the Rangers board who is now calling the shots according to Walter Smith:-
http://www.sundaymail.co.uk/2009/...e-to-deal-with-it-78057-21771890/
Hbos appointed Donald Muir to the Gers board nine days ago and the bank now has a major say in the running of the club.
Muir will call the shots as they try to reduce a £30million debt and find someone to buy out owner Sir David Murray.
MailSport understands Muir outlined his plans at a board meeting last week and the Ibrox hierarchy were left shocked.
The bank will continue to seek buyers for as many players as they can during the January transfer window.
And any offers put to stars looking for new contracts will be on much reduced terms.
It has been made clear the bank's priority is not success on the field but sorting out the money mess and finding a buyer.
The top dogs at Ibrox aren't comfortable with the situation but have to accept it.
Lloyds TSB are looking for any way they can to recoup their losses as David Murray's business empire is currently in the process of unraveling. If they could somehow get Rangers out of the SPL that would be much easier to achieve but odds on it won't happen and we are going to see Scottish football return to the way things were before the Souness revolution. Bit of a backwater largely ignored outside Scotland with most top Scotland internationals eventually leaving for top English clubs and no top players arriving from outside to replace them with Old Firm clubs dominant most of the time but provincial clubs sometimes able to compete with them.
As the new found diddy status of the Old Firm becomes increasingly obvious in the years ahead replica jerseys will no longer be such a popular fashion accessory for the Ned element looking for a boost in self-esteem and gloryhunting types and the armchair fan will start to follow the fortunes of top Premiership clubs instead. If the season ticket culture is ever lost and fans start to pick and choose which games to attend again as they did in the 70s and early 80s both clubs will be well and truly sunk financially.
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Shagpile
This is Ma' Life!
Joined: 03 Jan 2006
Posts: 794
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| Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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| William_Cleland wrote: | | Ibrox and Parkhead are not suddenly going to be moved to England. Rangers and Celtic are inherently Scottish clubs whether you like it or not and Scottish football being unable to accommodate the two best supported clubs who between them attract a majority of the spectator interest in Scotland would ultimately lead to the death of Scottish football as a separate entity including the national team. Spite filled nationalists who can't see that will wind up destroying what they claim to love if they ever get their way. |
I think I may have misunderstood a big part of your post.....
Where and when have the Old Firm not been accomodated by Scotish football?
One could argue for too long Scottish Football has ben all about Rangers and Celtic!
BTW..... Did you know Rangers fans are now singing "You can stick your Tartan Army up your arse" on the Terraces?
The problems in Scottish Football are RIVEN with sectarianism. The new "pc friendly machinations" of the Auld Firm, re... in particular; religeon, have concentrated absolutely nowt, given a headline or two in the media.
I would have said that not all the problems in Scotish Football, began with and have continued with the Auld Firm, now I see that it totally has.
Protectionism has done for many countries, what the Auld Firm has done for Scottish Football. The SFL, discarded like an old shoe, by the Auld Firm. Rather than use their influence to change the SFL..... they left.
It could have been sooooo different had the Auld Firm used their domminance in the game to protect Scottish Football.
CLOSED the SFL to better clubs and teams. CLOSED oppertunity to concentrate focus on Billy or Tim.
Speaking of which....... Rangers fans would switch to Hearts, Celtic to Hibs if either went down the tubes....... it's a F'in' Sad Mindset Scottish Football needs to ditch.
Evidence is in the lack of leadership in the SFA. Clueless whether or not Football is the game or is it the Auld Firm?
Tony Banks as Sports Minister first raised the prospect of a British Football Team..... long before the OG was a twinkle in Seb's eye. Now it is objective full on by the British Government! Not even the Torys did that!
So where do you really stand...... Billy? |
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William_Cleland
I need ma own bl**dy forum!
Joined: 22 Apr 2007
Posts: 1180
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| Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 4:01 am Post subject: |
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| Shagpile wrote: | | BTW..... Did you know Rangers fans are now singing "You can stick your Tartan Army up your arse" on the Terraces? |
That isn't a rejection of Scotland just of the Tartan Army. Says something about people's grasp of Scottish history on here that nobody has ever realised that my username refers to one of the Covenanter heroes who fought the Jacobites at Drumclog and Bothwell Brig and died a martyr's death at Dunkeld. Grown men prancing about in pseudo-Jacobite pantomine outfits have my complete disdain given I see the Covenanters as being Scotland's forgotten heroes in a 17th century context so I have no problem whatsoever with the underlying sentiment behind the chant. My only reservations would be with the phrasing and the manner in which it is expressed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Cleland
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Drumclog
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bothwell_Brig
http://www.covenanter.org.uk/Drumclog/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Dunkeld
As for your final question the answer is for the Scotland of John Brown, James Renwick, Margaret Wilson, the weavers in 1820 and Keir Hardie rather than that of the phony Victorian era Highland fad invented by Sir Walter Scott, the shortbread tin and cringeworthy national embarrassments like Harry Lauder or Jesse Rae.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIwGD_XQNSM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOad0FU9zF8
Genuine football supporters wear jeans and a t-shirt like the real Tartan Army did back in the 1970s before the Scotland team was hijacked by politically-motivated "footsoldiers" in skirts and jimmy wigs.
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landg
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| Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:17 am Post subject: |
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| indeed. you can stick your pish stained, skid marked, drunken, bum flashing at grannies,white middle class tertin ermy up you arse. |
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Shagpile
This is Ma' Life!
Joined: 03 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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| William_Cleland wrote: | | That isn't a rejection of Scotland just of the Tartan Army........ My only reservations would be with the phrasing and the manner in which it is expressed. |
Good post btw, sincerely.
I also have reservations with the prasing and manner in which they express their singing. I seriously doubt however, that the Ibrox faithfull seriously engage with the train of thought you articulated clearly...... and talking of clarity, Landg seems to express his not so unique originality after your post.
You did not say how Scottish Football has failed to accomodate the Auld Firm though.
| Quote: | | As for your final question the answer is for the Scotland of John Brown, James Renwick, Margaret Wilson, the weavers in 1820 and Keir Hardie rather than that of the phony Victorian era Highland fad invented by Sir Walter Scott, the shortbread tin and cringeworthy national embarrassments like Harry Lauder or Jesse Rae. |
Re read my post...... understand fully why you were miffed at that. I was not meaning to have a go. Failed in my (not so funny) humerous attempt to enquire if you were a Rangers fan.
| Quote: | | Genuine football supporters wear jeans and a t-shirt like the real Tartan Army did back in the 1970s before the Scotland team was hijacked by politically-motivated "footsoldiers" in skirts and jimmy wigs. |
Says who? I thought we were talking about football..... yet you're right. There is a political side to the bigotry espoused by the Auld Firm. Baned from singing about Popes, ropes and Fenians....... they still need to complete their 90 minutes of bigotry....... otherwise it aint cricket.
The squaddies Landg elates at are the very ones dressed to kill in their Walter Scott shortbread tin regalia. THAT KIND of Tartan Army is OK though. |
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landg
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| Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Shagpile wrote: | | William_Cleland wrote: | | That isn't a rejection of Scotland just of the Tartan Army........ My only reservations would be with the phrasing and the manner in which it is expressed. |
Good post btw, sincerely.
I also have reservations with the prasing and manner in which they express their singing. I seriously doubt however, that the Ibrox faithfull seriously engage with the train of thought you articulated clearly...... and talking of clarity, Landg seems to express his not so unique originality after your post.
You did not say how Scottish Football has failed to accomodate the Auld Firm though.
| Quote: | | As for your final question the answer is for the Scotland of John Brown, James Renwick, Margaret Wilson, the weavers in 1820 and Keir Hardie rather than that of the phony Victorian era Highland fad invented by Sir Walter Scott, the shortbread tin and cringeworthy national embarrassments like Harry Lauder or Jesse Rae. |
Re read my post...... understand fully why you were miffed at that. I was not meaning to have a go. Failed in my (not so funny) humerous attempt to enquire if you were a Rangers fan.
| Quote: | | Genuine football supporters wear jeans and a t-shirt like the real Tartan Army did back in the 1970s before the Scotland team was hijacked by politically-motivated "footsoldiers" in skirts and jimmy wigs. |
Says who? I thought we were talking about football..... yet you're right. There is a political side to the bigotry espoused by the Auld Firm. Baned from singing about Popes, ropes and Fenians....... they still need to complete their 90 minutes of bigotry....... otherwise it aint cricket.
The squaddies Landg elates at are the very ones dressed to kill in their Walter Scott shortbread tin regalia. THAT KIND of Tartan Army is OK though. |
even better than the oatcakes and shortbread thread.
you sir, are comedy gold. |
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Shagpile
This is Ma' Life!
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| Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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| landg wrote: | even better than the oatcakes and shortbread thread.
you sir, are comedy gold. |
Aw thanks Landg!
BTW, do you have a link to that intelligent post you made? I've looked everywhere but I just can't find it.  |
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landg
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| Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Shagpile wrote: | | landg wrote: | even better than the oatcakes and shortbread thread.
you sir, are comedy gold. |
Aw thanks Landg!
BTW, do you have a link to that intelligent post you made? I've looked everywhere but I just can't find it. |
looks like we sail in the same ship then does'nt it thicko. |
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Stevie
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Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Posts: 1179
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| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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Go.
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Shagpile
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| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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| landg wrote: | | looks like we sail in the same ship then does'nt it thicko. |
Incapable of making anything other than a personal attack?
Are you waiting for William to make another post for you to laud?
If we are in the same ship Landg..... I'm the captain, and you the stow away. |
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Stevie
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| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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No, he's waiting for Ultra.
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Shagpile
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Joined: 03 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Stevie wrote: | | No, he's waiting for Ultra. |
Ah...... but I doubt if Ultra could tell us where the Auld firm have not been accommodated by Scottish Football either.
I'm sure Landg can..... NOT! |
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Ultra
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Joined: 29 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Shagpile wrote: | | Stevie wrote: | | No, he's waiting for Ultra. |
Ah...... but I doubt if Ultra could tell us where the Auld firm have not been accommodated by Scottish Football either.
I'm sure Landg can..... NOT! |
How about when the rest of the SPL clubs voted to go with the Setanta TV deal when Celtic, Rangers, and Aberdeen advised them not to as it would make more business sense to stick with Sky who are far more financially secure and world wide media players?
Oh dear. Looks how Scottish Football has turned out now. Even more of a laughing stock. Several clubs have gone out of business or are on the brink. Attendences are falling as the clubs can't afford decent players these days. |
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William_Cleland
I need ma own bl**dy forum!
Joined: 22 Apr 2007
Posts: 1180
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:05 am Post subject: |
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| Shagpile wrote: | | Says who? I thought we were talking about football..... yet you're right. There is a political side to the bigotry espoused by the Auld Firm. Baned from singing about Popes, ropes and Fenians....... they still need to complete their 90 minutes of bigotry....... otherwise it aint cricket. |
Sure there is some bigotry involved but do you have any concept of how many Old Firm supporters go home to a partner from the other side of the divide these days? The political discourse on this subject has more to do with the realities of middle aged politician's childhoods in the 60s and 70s that helped to shape their world view than with Scotland in 2009. There was a half-time birthday announcement for a young Rangers supporter called Declan at Ibrox last season much to the crowd's amusement and that is the wave of things to come. A generation is growing up in which it is normal to have both Rangers and Celtic supporting relatives. Given that new reality for the younger generation it's highly debatable whether the sectarian divide actually is the major one in Scottish society nowadays. A contrast can be drawn with the way in which race is America's fixation and how this leads to the American prison system having a major problem with race based criminal gangs. In Scottish cities it tends to be one scheme against another on a purely territorial basis at street level and in prison the main divide tends to be Edinburgh vs. Glasgow.
The media agenda in Scotland is largely controlled by Catrionas and Torquils so the element of pathetic anti-English bigotry that fixates a large portion of the Scotland support is never confronted and only the prejudices of lumpen proles in the west of Scotland are ever seen as a problem. It's truly sad the way that some people have defined their entire identity based on not being English in the aftermath of the Empire but have had to latch onto a 19th century music hall joke image of what it means to be Scottish in the process because they come from a social stratum that spent 300 years trying to be just like the English in speech and manner so they could participate as junior partners in crime where the Empire was concerned.
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Stevie
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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Couldn't Rangers and Celtic find a way of completely physically re-establishing themselves in England and thus take away with them their nasty little sectarian misery to whatever poor unfortunate English town they happen to land in.
Well, I can dream.
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landg
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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| William_Cleland wrote: | | Shagpile wrote: | | Says who? I thought we were talking about football..... yet you're right. There is a political side to the bigotry espoused by the Auld Firm. Baned from singing about Popes, ropes and Fenians....... they still need to complete their 90 minutes of bigotry....... otherwise it aint cricket. |
Sure there is some bigotry involved but do you have any concept of how many Old Firm supporters go home to a partner from the other side of the divide these days? The political discourse on this subject has more to do with the realities of middle aged politician's childhoods in the 60s and 70s that helped to shape their world view than with Scotland in 2009. There was a half-time birthday announcement for a young Rangers supporter called Declan at Ibrox last season much to the crowd's amusement and that is the wave of things to come. A generation is growing up in which it is normal to have both Rangers and Celtic supporting relatives. Given that new reality for the younger generation it's highly debatable whether the sectarian divide actually is the major one in Scottish society nowadays. A contrast can be drawn with the way in which race is America's fixation and how this leads to the American prison system having a major problem with race based criminal gangs. In Scottish cities it tends to be one scheme against another on a purely territorial basis at street level and in prison the main divide tends to be Edinburgh vs. Glasgow.
The media agenda in Scotland is largely controlled by Catrionas and Torquils so the element of pathetic anti-English bigotry that fixates a large portion of the Scotland support is never confronted and only the prejudices of lumpen proles in the west of Scotland are ever seen as a problem. It's truly sad the way that some people have defined their entire identity based on not being English in the aftermath of the Empire but have had to latch onto a 19th century music hall joke image of what it means to be Scottish in the process because they come from a social stratum that spent 300 years trying to be just like the English in speech and manner so they could participate as junior partners in crime where the Empire was concerned. |
now that is a weel put and articulate post. telling it how it is. keep that up sir and they will be modrating your posts. |
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Stevie
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Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Posts: 1179
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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| William_Cleland wrote: | | pathetic anti-English bigotry that fixates a large portion of the Scotland support is never confronted and only the prejudices of lumpen proles in the west of Scotland are ever seen as a problem. It's truly sad the way that some people have defined their entire identity based on not being English in the aftermath of the Empire but have had to latch onto a 19th century music hall joke image of what it means to be Scottish |
The anti-English thing is dying but the music hall Scottishness is in your head, I don't think anyone here on this board is of that ilk. The vast majority of Scots aren't : who are you talking about?
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landg
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Stevie wrote: | | William_Cleland wrote: | | pathetic anti-English bigotry that fixates a large portion of the Scotland support is never confronted and only the prejudices of lumpen proles in the west of Scotland are ever seen as a problem. It's truly sad the way that some people have defined their entire identity based on not being English in the aftermath of the Empire but have had to latch onto a 19th century music hall joke image of what it means to be Scottish |
The anti-English thing is dying but the music hall Scottishness is in your head, I don't think anyone here on this board is of that ilk. The vast majority of Scots aren't : who are you talking about? |
the anti-english thing is alive and well.
music hall scottishness is in your head 
http://ourscotland.myfreeforum.org/about6613.html
post 2.
FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDOM.day. |
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Stevie
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Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Posts: 1179
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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I see you're imbibing again.
And you've resurrected your joke again.
Jolly good.
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