| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
landg
This is Ma' Life!
Joined: 05 Aug 2009
Posts: 617
Location: awaiting approval by a mod/admin
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Stevie
Independentist
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Posts: 1179
|
 Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 6:08 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
A brilliant idea landg.
I await with great expectation the fruits of your insight and wisdom dear boy.
_________________
Every man dies, not every man really lives.
Alba gu bràth! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
landg
This is Ma' Life!
Joined: 05 Aug 2009
Posts: 617
Location: awaiting approval by a mod/admin
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 6:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Stevie wrote: | A brilliant idea landg.
I await with great expectation the fruits of your insight and wisdom dear boy. |
it's about the bnp and afghanistan, you will not understand. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Stevie
Independentist
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Posts: 1179
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | James McMillan, the composer, has denounced the “cult” of Robert Burns, claiming that Burns suppers are parodies of the Catholic mass.
Writing in Celtic Minded 3, a collection of essays about the culture and politics of Celtic football club, he claims that Burns suppers are a deliberate mockery of the rituals of Catholicism.
“The Ayrshire Burns supper is unmistakably a parody mass,” he writes.
“Homilies and invocations are used to evoke ‘sacred memory’, ‘epiclesis’ [eucharist] is called down on a sacrificial victim in the shape of whisky and haggis, which is pierced by a knife and then consumed, communion style by the assembled congregation.”
MacMillan said he was delighted to be invited to an alternative Burns supper in honour of the late Celtic player Tommy Burns.
“There were no interminable immortal memories, no misogynistic Address to the Lassies ... no dodgy handshakes and no narrow definition of what it means to be Scottish,” he writes.
Margaret Morrall, president of the Ayr Burns Club, dismissed the criticism: “When people cut a cake and raise a toast at weddings and birthdays is that a parody of mass too?” |
Naughty lang, hardly 'brilliant'. It's not about the bnp or Afghanistan; it's about dissing the Scots.
I take it you're not fond of the place then...
_________________
Every man dies, not every man really lives.
Alba gu bràth! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
landg
This is Ma' Life!
Joined: 05 Aug 2009
Posts: 617
Location: awaiting approval by a mod/admin
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
i love scotland but love to mock some of the stuff that comes out of it.
like this twit mcmillan and some other things that spring to mind, like, ach.........guess. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rinty
Jim Baxter is God...........really!!!!
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 3601
Location: SW Scotland
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I havent read his article and after the ludicrous reaction to his edinburgh festival speech I will reserve judgement until I do so. Jimmy MacMillan is anything but a "twit". |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
landg
This is Ma' Life!
Joined: 05 Aug 2009
Posts: 617
Location: awaiting approval by a mod/admin
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:06 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Rinty wrote: | | I havent read his article and after the ludicrous reaction to his edinburgh festival speech I will reserve judgement until I do so. Jimmy MacMillan is anything but a "twit". |
you really need to read this piece of rabid, paranoid rubbish.
he is a cliched 'oppressed catholic' but with a mouthpiece.
scary. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rinty
Jim Baxter is God...........really!!!!
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 3601
Location: SW Scotland
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I'm surprised that you have read "celtic-minded 3" landg. Its not my kind of thing but I will try to get the original article.
I find myself usually disagreeing with MacMillan but find his points very interesting and worthy of debate.
What surprises me is the hostile apoplexy that breaks out every time he opens his mouth.
MacMillan is very far from being a cliche though. He is a traditional catholic in terms of his faith, very old-fashioned in my opinion, but very much a student of religion and its place in culture. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dave Coull
Independentista
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2809
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Not for the first time, | landg wrote: | | paranoid rubbish |
| Rinty wrote: | | I'm surprised that you have read "celtic-minded 3" |
I haven't read it, but I have read some other things James MacMillan wrote. I have the book "Scotland's Shame" which includes contributions from him. | Rinty wrote: | | He is a traditional catholic in terms of his faith, very old-fashioned in my opinion |
I think it's a bit ridiulous to claim that "Burns suppers are parodies of the Catholic mass". In protestant churches, certainly in presbyterian churches, communion is a far more infrequent occasion than in the catholic church, but, precisely because it is less frequent, it can sometimes be a bigger deal when it happens. At one time, the rock band Runrig, as well as not playing on Sunday, used to avoid playing on the quarterly free kirk communion days (generally a Thursday I think). In rural parts of Scotland (such as Burns's Ayrshire, for instance), in the 18th Century, it was not unknown for holy communion to be conducted outside, simply because the churches weren't big enough to hold everybody who came from many miles around. These gatherings were big social occasions as well as religious. Because there were so many people to be given communion, they went on for a long time, and as they took place outside there was plenty of time for other kinds of communion to happen on the fringes. Open air revivalist gatherings in the USA originated with Scots presbyterians' communion days. But more generally, the eating of a communal meal in a social/religious setting is something which can be found in many cultures. You find it amongst Native Americans, and of course the very first Thanksgiving meal in the USA did include the local Native Americans, as well as the Pilgrims. But you also find the eating of a communal meal in a social/religious setting amongst Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc. And, of course, you find it amongst Freemasons. And Robert Burns WAS a Freemason. And it was the masonic lodges, more than anybody else, who did a lot to popularise the custom of having Burns suppers. Which may be one reason why James MacMillan dislikes the custom so much. So, the Burns Supper has some obvious connections with Burns's own experience (the kirk as both social and religious gathering, boozing with cronies, masonic fellowship meals) but as for "parody of the catholic mass", yes, that's paranoia. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Stevie
Independentist
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Posts: 1179
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 6:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
It's silliness from a silly man who will be forgotten long before people stop eating haggis.
_________________
Every man dies, not every man really lives.
Alba gu bràth! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
magister ludi
Gaining a Reputation
Joined: 13 Dec 2008
Posts: 225
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 8:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I've been to Burns's suppers in a field, under canvas, in a wooden hut, in an officers mess, in private homes, in village halls, in masonic lodges and a bishops palace......I think he's pulling our collective plonker! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
landg
This is Ma' Life!
Joined: 05 Aug 2009
Posts: 617
Location: awaiting approval by a mod/admin
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 8:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Rinty wrote: | I'm surprised that you have read "celtic-minded 3" landg. Its not my kind of thing but I will try to get the original article.
I find myself usually disagreeing with MacMillan but find his points very interesting and worthy of debate.
What surprises me is the hostile apoplexy that breaks out every time he opens his mouth.
MacMillan is very far from being a cliche though. He is a traditional catholic in terms of his faith, very old-fashioned in my opinion, but very much a student of religion and its place in culture. |
i have no idea what celticminded 3 is?
i read his latest paranoid and cliched rant in the times as you will see in the link.
i do recall fondly the combined discomfort of thousands when fergus mcann described what celticminded meant. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rinty
Jim Baxter is God...........really!!!!
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 3601
Location: SW Scotland
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
so you havent read his article, just the short report on it in the times.
That interests me as the book 'scotlands shame' came about when Devine was forced to admit that he was wrong to criticise MacMillan's Edinburgh Festival speech, attacking the newspaper reports of the speech rather than waiting to read the whole thing. He was moved to then compile the book as a response, opening up a wider debate rather than a narrow attack on a misrepresentation of Jimmy's views.
I have no idea where he gets the idea of the burns supper being based on a catholic mass, but it wouldnt be the most shocking thing I have ever heard personally. Often, rituals can be based on or pardies of previous rituals, it isnt such a big deal or such a problem to propose that some are. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
landg
This is Ma' Life!
Joined: 05 Aug 2009
Posts: 617
Location: awaiting approval by a mod/admin
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Rinty wrote: | | I have no idea where he gets the idea of the burns supper being based on a catholic mass, . |
i think you'll find it is because he is a MOPE and generically bigotted. him and his type are scotlands (or irelands!!!!!) shame.
yes, i only read the article, i still have no idea what celticminded3 is but i still chuckle at fergus mcann's description on 'celticminded' and fergus was a clever and astute man. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rinty
Jim Baxter is God...........really!!!!
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 3601
Location: SW Scotland
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I don't know what Fergus McCann said and I'm not much interested to be honest, but I cant understand why you would refer to it without actually telling us what he said.
I've never read the celtic-minded books or their rangers equivalents. I did read Scotlands Shame though and thought that it was a great follow up to MacMillans orginal, misrepresented, speech.
Devine was inspired to compile the book after attacking MacMillans speech based on what he had read in the papers of it, rather than the actual speech. This led to an inportant compilation on the subject from leading commentators and church leaders that assisted the debate in my opinion.
So I am not moved to comment on this latest thing based on a reporters version of what it is about.
Why do you say "Irelands shame" when referring to MacMillan? He is a scot, from Cumnock. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
landg
This is Ma' Life!
Joined: 05 Aug 2009
Posts: 617
Location: awaiting approval by a mod/admin
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Rinty wrote: | I don't know what Fergus McCann said and I'm not much interested to be honest, but I cant understand why you would refer to it without actually telling us what he said.
I've never read the celtic-minded books or their rangers equivalents. I did read Scotlands Shame though and thought that it was a great follow up to MacMillans orginal, misrepresented, speech.
Devine was inspired to compile the book after attacking MacMillans speech based on what he had read in the papers of it, rather than the actual speech. This led to an inportant compilation on the subject from leading commentators and church leaders that assisted the debate in my opinion.
So I am not moved to comment on this latest thing based on a reporters version of what it is about.
Why do you say "Irelands shame" when referring to MacMillan? He is a scot, from Cumnock. |
the bold fergus described 'celticminded' as roman catholic irish bigots. or words to that effect. it did not go down well at the time and still does'nt.
as for irelands shame, well, there are many thousands of scottish bigots who claim to be irish. they are irelands shame.
still no idea what celticminded3 is. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dave Coull
Independentista
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2809
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 11:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| landg wrote: | | him and his type are scotlands (or irelands!!!!!) shame |
| Rinty wrote: | | Why do you say "Irelands shame" when referring to MacMillan? He is a scot |
| landg wrote: | | there are many thousands of scottish bigots who claim to be irish. they are irelands shame |
Landg, all you are doing is displaying your own ignorance and bigotry. "MacMillan" is a Scottish name. There are thousands of MacMillans whose ancestors have never been anywhere near the Emerald Isle. At my village school, we had a kid called Angus MacMillan. Like a lot of Macmillans, young Angus and his family were protestants. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
landg
This is Ma' Life!
Joined: 05 Aug 2009
Posts: 617
Location: awaiting approval by a mod/admin
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 9:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Dave Coull wrote: | | landg wrote: | | him and his type are scotlands (or irelands!!!!!) shame |
| Rinty wrote: | | Why do you say "Irelands shame" when referring to MacMillan? He is a scot |
| landg wrote: | | there are many thousands of scottish bigots who claim to be irish. they are irelands shame |
Landg, all you are doing is displaying your own ignorance and bigotry. "MacMillan" is a Scottish name. There are thousands of MacMillans whose ancestors have never been anywhere near the Emerald Isle. At my village school, we had a kid called Angus MacMillan. Like a lot of Macmillans, young Angus and his family were protestants. |
dvadi, i was merely pointing out that there are many scottish born bigots, who, with irish ancestry, claim to be irish rather than scottish/british.
to pretend otherwise is just silly. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dave Coull
Independentista
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2809
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
about James MacMillan | landg wrote: | | HIM and his type are scotlands (or irelands!!!!!) shame |
| Rinty wrote: | | Why do you say "Irelands shame" when referring to MacMillan? He is a scot |
and I pointed out | Quote: | | Landg, all you are doing is displaying your own ignorance and bigotry. "MacMillan" is a Scottish name. There are thousands of MacMillans whose ancestors have never been anywhere near the Emerald Isle. At my village school, we had a kid called Angus MacMillan. Like a lot of Macmillans, young Angus and his family were protestants. |
"landg" now claims | Quote: | | i was merely pointing out that there are many scottish born bigots, who, with irish ancestry, claim to be irish |
No, that is NOT "all" you were saying. In saying "HIM and his type" you were quite specifically applying this to one particular individual, James MacMillan. Now, I happen to think James MacMillan is something of a bigot. But he's a Scottish one. | landg wrote: | | to pretend otherwise is just silly. |
Nobody here is "pretending otherwise". Of course there are people in Scotland who say they are Irish. You were wrong in saying this applies to James MacMillan. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
landg
This is Ma' Life!
Joined: 05 Aug 2009
Posts: 617
Location: awaiting approval by a mod/admin
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
i wonder if macmillan has any irish ancestry, has he claimed it or spoken out about it? does anyone know. many of irelands shame do so.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Join! (free) 
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
