| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
mairead
'Our Scotland' Fossil
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 4295
Location: Argyll, Alba
|
 Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:48 am Post subject: Trident |
 |
|
Did anyone see the early morning interview with Alex. Salmond. During it, Salmond said that there are plans at Westminster to spend £1000 million on upgrading Trident.
£1000 million on weapons that we don't want, while people are losing homes and jobs, the NHS is under threat, education needs a boost and the country is in general decline. disgusting.
That figure should be the headline in every newspaper in this country
_________________
I fear not hell, nor English strife,
For Scotland, I will give my life |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Alasdair
Our Scotland = 2nd Job!
Joined: 01 May 2008
Posts: 1021
Location: Clydesdale
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
Yeah, I heard that. It's fairly mind-boggling to think that on the one hand health services should be cut, whilst upgrading your ability to carry out destruction on an incomprehensible scale.
_________________
My blog - http://manaboutthehouse.wordpress.com
My arts and crafts site http://madestuff.co.uk |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Aventinian
1 Strike
Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 5557
Location: Oh, I get about a bit.
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 1:43 pm Post subject: Re: Trident |
|
|
| mairead wrote: | Did anyone see the early morning interview with Alex. Salmond. During it, Salmond said that there are plans at Westminster to spend £1000 million on upgrading Trident.
£1000 million on weapons that we don't want, while people are losing homes and jobs, the NHS is under threat, education needs a boost and the country is in general decline. disgusting.
That figure should be the headline in every newspaper in this country |
"The country is in general decline" - dear Lord, I wasn't aware we had a Daily Mail journalist in our midst. That's a load of nonsense. We're in a recession, they happen from time to time, it's not a bloody disaster.
But yes, the British public probably don't particularly support trident renewal. So what? It's the responsibility of the state, with the support of expert evidence and considered debate and consultation, to defend the realm; it is not the responsibility of some two-bit moron who happens to be phoned up by Yougov one afternoon and asked about his internet-based philosophy on how the world should be run. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Alasdair
Our Scotland = 2nd Job!
Joined: 01 May 2008
Posts: 1021
Location: Clydesdale
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 2:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
ouch! Bit harsh there Av.
Your argument may well have validity, but it's also valid to contend that the government is there to represent the wishes of the public, particularly where there is such strongly held feeling.
_________________
My blog - http://manaboutthehouse.wordpress.com
My arts and crafts site http://madestuff.co.uk |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Aventinian
1 Strike
Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 5557
Location: Oh, I get about a bit.
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 5:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Alasdair wrote: | ouch! Bit harsh there Av.
Your argument may well have validity, but it's also valid to contend that the government is there to represent the wishes of the public, particularly where there is such strongly held feeling. |
But there isn't - at best, a little over half of the British public don't want nuclear weapons. Now, you can diddle the figures around and ask them if they want to spend [insert generic big sum of money] on it in the middle of a recession, but frankly that's just exposing the silliness of this particular form of pollsters democracy. People give vastly different answers depending on what you ask them; people are short-sighted in political matters; plenty of people are thick; only a tiny fraction actually have the level of understanding of the average MP and about one in 5 million have the same understanding of the issue as the Defence Secretary.
The fact that there is a pretty large cross-party consensus on the issue in Parliament also helps. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
landg
This is Ma' Life!
Joined: 05 Aug 2009
Posts: 617
Location: awaiting approval by a mod/admin
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| we need and, trident must stay. even cutting the fleet by 1 concerns me.anyway, it is droll and pretty thick to suggest, ' get rid of wmd's and spend it on hospitals for cancer'. daily record readers page politics. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Stevie
Independentist
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Posts: 1179
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Sorry, I don't think the amount can be right. Maybe it's a hundred million £.
_________________
Every man dies, not every man really lives.
Alba gu brąth! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Aventinian
1 Strike
Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 5557
Location: Oh, I get about a bit.
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 11:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Stevie wrote: | | Sorry, I don't think the amount can be right. Maybe it's a hundred million £. |
£15-20 billion by MoD estimates.
£76 billion by CND figures
£95 billion by Greenpeace figures
I rather wonder which orifice the latter two were pulled out of. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mairead
'Our Scotland' Fossil
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 4295
Location: Argyll, Alba
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
As all the world knows where Trident and other missiles are stored, does anyone ever wonder what would happen to Scotland if these weapons were ever used? Where would the retaliation strike, Oh Yes, Scotland, where the missiles are stored. Bye Bye Scotland.
Or of course they could be kept down in the Thames area, come to think of it, why aren't they?. Not hard to figure.
PS Aventinian,
Is there a great difference between a recession and declne
of prosperity.? Not from where I see it there isn't, so go pick your nose instead of picking up on trivia and trying to sound superior.
_________________
I fear not hell, nor English strife,
For Scotland, I will give my life |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
landg
This is Ma' Life!
Joined: 05 Aug 2009
Posts: 617
Location: awaiting approval by a mod/admin
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
| mairead wrote: | As all the world knows where Trident and other missiles are stored, does anyone ever wonder what would happen to Scotland if these weapons were ever used? Where would the retaliation strike, Oh Yes, Scotland, where the missiles are stored. Bye Bye Scotland.
Or of course they could be kept down in the Thames area, come to think of it, why aren't they?. Not hard to figure.
. |
i know a bit about this, just a couple of quick reason's why the subs are in faslane and not the thames
1. deep waters.
2. quick access to the north atlantic
just a couple of reasons to warm you up and help you along, research the rest yourself, it's not difficult. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Holebender
Ready For Afterlife!
Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 2752
Location: Here or There
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:06 am Post subject: Re: Trident |
|
|
| Aventinian wrote: | | It's the responsibility of the state... to defend the realm |
Over 95% of the world's states manage to defend themselves without nuclear weapons. How, exactly, would we defend ourselves with nuclear weapons? If we launch them at another nuclear power we will be vapourised by their relatiatory strike. If we launch them at a non-nuclear power it would be genocide - the very worst war crime. What is the point of Trident?
_________________
"My instinct is to agree with your opinion of his verse, but I've never so much as glanced at it." - agentmancuso |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Alasdair
Our Scotland = 2nd Job!
Joined: 01 May 2008
Posts: 1021
Location: Clydesdale
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
| landg wrote: | i know a bit about this, just a couple of quick reason's why the subs are in faslane and not the thames
1. deep waters.
2. quick access to the north atlantic
just a couple of reasons to warm you up and help you along, research the rest yourself, it's not difficult. |
1. The waters need to be regularly dredged to maintain the depth, the Gareloch is not as deep as you might like to think. Indeed, they need to be dredged more regularly after the last submarine upgrade.
2. Fair enough.
The bases, Faslane and couplort aren't actually on the clyde ... it's a notion that's always bothered me. But they're just not.
_________________
My blog - http://manaboutthehouse.wordpress.com
My arts and crafts site http://madestuff.co.uk |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mairead
'Our Scotland' Fossil
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 4295
Location: Argyll, Alba
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 2:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I think they are on the Firth of Clyde though.
_________________
I fear not hell, nor English strife,
For Scotland, I will give my life |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mairead
'Our Scotland' Fossil
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 4295
Location: Argyll, Alba
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 2:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Holebender.
I completely agree with you and that is the most likely reason these weapons are up in Scotland.
Ain't Scotland the place where the people are expendible anyway.
_________________
I fear not hell, nor English strife,
For Scotland, I will give my life |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Alasdair
Our Scotland = 2nd Job!
Joined: 01 May 2008
Posts: 1021
Location: Clydesdale
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 3:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| mairead wrote: | | I think they are on the Firth of Clyde though. |
Nope the Gareloch (where Faslane is) is a loch unto itself while the Coulport base is on Loch Long, both come out into the Firth of clyde. It's geographically inaccurate and misleading to suggest the bases are on the Clyde.
http://www.geo.ed.ac.uk/scotgaz/towns/townmap3657.html
Sorry to be pedantic but I grew up with a view of the faslane base from my bedroom window and swam in the Gareloch, the firth of clyde, and Loch long as a child.
_________________
My blog - http://manaboutthehouse.wordpress.com
My arts and crafts site http://madestuff.co.uk |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Stevie
Independentist
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Posts: 1179
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Stupid idiotic loonies want a bunch of nukes to defend themselves from... who?
Aren't there enough nukes pointed at the potential threats by the Americans already?
The truth is it's a giant pissing contest and the aim is to show who has the biggest penis.
Except, if we start pissing we destroy life on Earth (except apparently the cockroaches who seem to survive every apocalyptic horror).
_________________
Every man dies, not every man really lives.
Alba gu brąth! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
landg
This is Ma' Life!
Joined: 05 Aug 2009
Posts: 617
Location: awaiting approval by a mod/admin
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Stevie wrote: | Stupid idiotic loonies want a bunch of nukes to defend themselves from... who?
Aren't there enough nukes pointed at the potential threats by the Americans already?
The truth is it's a giant pissing contest and the aim is to show who has the biggest penis.
Except, if we start pissing we destroy life on Earth (except apparently the cockroaches who seem to survive every apocalyptic horror). |
good lord, you really have little or no knowledge on an increasing amount of subjects, yet still manage to conjure up tabloidesque posts about them.
the editor of the daily record posts on here it seems now known as, 'stevie the vague'. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jamesieboy
Helping with the Count
Joined: 15 Feb 2009
Posts: 327
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Langd - explain one thing.
Given the national debt (at record levels) and the fact that taxes will have to go up, swingeing public sector cuts will have to be made and in all sectors...
how the hell can we afford Trident 2???????????????? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
landg
This is Ma' Life!
Joined: 05 Aug 2009
Posts: 617
Location: awaiting approval by a mod/admin
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
| jamesieboy wrote: | Langd - explain one thing.
Given the national debt (at record levels) and the fact that taxes will have to go up, swingeing public sector cuts will have to be made and in all sectors...
how the hell can we afford Trident 2???????????????? |
ehm, we can't. we cant't afford anything just now,but necessary things have to be paid for. trident is necessary.
it's not about being able to pay for it, it's about paying for things we must have. nhs, education, defence (trident), police etc. etc. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
magister ludi
Gaining a Reputation
Joined: 13 Dec 2008
Posts: 225
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| jamesieboy wrote: | Langd - explain one thing.
Given the national debt (at record levels) and the fact that taxes will have to go up, swingeing public sector cuts will have to be made and in all sectors...
how the hell can we afford Trident 2???????????????? |
wrong question, i suggest.
try "who benefits from trident2?"
(with apologies and a hat-tip to monty python)
now obviously there will be health benefits, employment, streets free from terrorists, peadophiles and drug barons not to mention better weather AND a reduction in green house gasses......but who benefits?
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Join! (free) 
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
