Our Scotland - www.our-scotland.org

Stevie · Independentist Joined: 22 Nov 2008 Posts: 1179

The vast vast majority of teachers in Europe have the welfare and the interests of the kids at heart.

One doesn't make it as a teacher these days unless you have a calling so to speak.

You become a teacher if you're not racist, bigoted etc etc. and it's hoped that since you're in that position of trust and confidence that despite the difficulties you face with kids' behaviour you keep calm, rise above and still try to set a good example.

As a teacher, you get more holidays than in most jobs and I can assure you teachers need them (and so do the kids).

A simple apology for overstepping the line would much appreciated.

And try giving your arguments against a Scottish education rather than failing attempts at humour. Though why you would be against it is only because you're frightened of it.

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Fidget · Standing in a Council Ward Joined: 21 Jan 2007 Posts: 556

The same thinking can be applied to the vast majority of parents who are not all you crack them up to be.

Apology? Ought to be coming from you.

Fidget · Standing in a Council Ward Joined: 21 Jan 2007 Posts: 556

Stevie · Independentist Joined: 22 Nov 2008 Posts: 1179

Ah doing the Brit Nat wriggle, always right, never wrong and probably singing Rule Britannia while watching a video of the Queen's 1957 coronation and having a cup of tea.

I any case, the vast majority of parents do the best they can do.

However, if you can stretch you memory a little, the thread was discussing should teachers give moral/social lessons.

You seem to believe not but the education system countries believes yes.

You don't know better as you've clearly proved with your unpleasantness and multiplied your unpleasantness by being unable to say you went too far (and save the drivel about speaking in general nobody here believes that).
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Every man dies, not every man really lives.

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Fidget · Standing in a Council Ward Joined: 21 Jan 2007 Posts: 556

Erm.. the title of the thread is "A Scottish Education"... followed by this:

Alasdair · Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:23 am Post subject:

I'm just going to chip in my 2 cents worth, given that I've been overtaken by insomnia.

The education system shouldn't be about making children 'feel' anything other than to feel the worth of having an education and actually learning pretty much anything and everything.

It does make sense however that the education system of a particular country (and regions within a country) should focus on history, geography, biology, etc. that is relevant and pertinent to that locality. And in this respect a highly prescriptive education system is not helpful, where we talk about specific aspects of subjects that MUST BE TAUGHT - obviously english and maths, require more structure than other areas.

Even in a relatively small country like Scotland there are culture, geographical and industrial variations over what is a relatively small area. Education comes to life when it can focus on what is tangible to the learner, be it local historical sites, events, characters or geographical features - those elements of my own early education that really stick out for me were those that would fall into this category. Although you can imagine how this may be applied more broadly in terms of subject matter.

Having said this, it should not be to the exclusion of the broader narrative of the planet and the introduction of 'foreign' elements as described above is useful both in providing a context and also a broader perspective.

In relation to the teaching cultural origins, background and traditions etc. Much of this is beyond the remit of the education system. You could teach this to the exclusion of all else and still miss out key elements for the various areas. In depth education in cultural or national identity issues are for the home and wider community, be you of indian, welsh, pakistani, iraqi, english, scottish, whatever origin. The further afield you go or the more remote the origins the more implausible such an education would become. How, for example, could a teacher with no experience of the Kashmiri region teach children about it in any real or meaningful way? The same question can be posed of a whole host of areas.
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Holebender · Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:44 am Post subject:

I find nothing to disagree with in Alasdair's post. Well put.
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Stevie · Independentist Joined: 22 Nov 2008 Posts: 1179

Me neither but it would be nice to have some aspects of Scotland being taught in schools.
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Every man dies, not every man really lives.

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Aventinian · Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:24 pm Post subject:

Stevie · Independentist Joined: 22 Nov 2008 Posts: 1179

Alasdair · Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:56 pm Post subject:

Stevie · Independentist Joined: 22 Nov 2008 Posts: 1179

I suggest you read Nigel Tranter's The Bruce Trilogy Alasdair.

It won't seem very distant at all after that.
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Every man dies, not every man really lives.

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Aventinian · Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:11 am Post subject:

mairead · Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:39 am Post subject:

Without doubt, Wallace was one of Scotland's greatest heroes, but, as Aventinian correctly points out he is in danger of becoming more of a myth, and the reason for that is that there are too many 'Wallace Days' in this country.
For example, one of them is held where he is alleged to have sharpened his sword on a specific stone, and what scribe of the times would note that down and who would preserve such a stone. Apart from that he probably sharpened his sword regularly.
Next we will be honouring a bush where the great man relieved himself.

Hollywoods attempt at immortalising Wallace, while it was a great film, had the merest thread of history running through it.
The Battle of Stirling Bridge was not won by Wallace and his men alone, Sir Andrew de Moray and his men played a huge part in this victory, although he barely got a mention in the film and has been more or less forgotten.

If we are to teach our children history, then the actual facts which are known should be taught, not the mythology of a Hollywood blockbuster.
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Alasdair · Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:00 am Post subject:

Stevie · Independentist Joined: 22 Nov 2008 Posts: 1179

The fact is that Wallace was at Stirling and won the first major battle against the English there.

How he did it and with whom is interesting but is not necessarily what the film is about.

Moray died after the battle... a great man but Wallace is the hero.

Wallace's story is partly myth and is not well known, at least nowhere near as well known as the story of Scotland's hero king Robert the Bruce. To mythologize Wallace, is to continue what the Scots have been doing for centuries.

Oh yes, and Braveheart is the first time the world brought Scotland into it's conversation since Sir Walter Scott.

The real hero is Good King Robert.

Aventinian, if you think Tranter's Bruce trilogy is a joke then it's self evident you know nothing about Robert the Bruce and his part in the wars of independence.
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Every man dies, not every man really lives.

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Holebender · Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:40 pm Post subject:

It would have been a nice touch if they'd included a bridge in the Battle of Stirling Bridge in the film.
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"My instinct is to agree with your opinion of his verse, but I've never so much as glanced at it." - agentmancuso

magister ludi · Gaining a Reputation Joined: 13 Dec 2008 Posts: 225

Dave Coull · Independentista Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 2809

I agree that history is rarely a straight fight between good and evil; however, in every age, you can find some individuals and some movements, not necessarily all on one "side" in any particular battle, that are "better", or more humane, than those predominating in that age.

Stevie · Independentist Joined: 22 Nov 2008 Posts: 1179

The wars of independence is about the struggle for freedom and liberty and how it eventually stirred the Scots to fight against terrible odds, win and resurrect their country and freedoms.

It is a particularly Scottish story.

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Every man dies, not every man really lives.

Alba gu bràth!