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Dave Coull
Independentista
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2809
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 Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Ultra wrote: | | Lloyds TSB Scotland, HBOS, and RBS are owned operated and controlled in Scotland. |
LLOYDS is/was a LONDON bank. When they took over the TSB, it was the traditional Lloyds of London sign, the Black Horse, that went up on all their branches. As for HALIFAX bank of scotland, HALIFAX is in Yorkshire. These are BRITISH banks. The British government didn't have the money to bail out the British banks, so they borrowed billions of dollars (which we will all be paying for) on the international market in order to do so, because they considered this in the interests of Britain. Whether it was in the interests of Scotland is another matter.
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landg
This is Ma' Life!
Joined: 05 Aug 2009
Posts: 617
Location: awaiting approval by a mod/admin
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Stevie wrote: | Unemployment caused by Thatcher destroying our economy and Labour doing bug all since they got into power in Scotland (and in England).
The banks were allowed to do what they wanted, left the state of being simply Scottish banks becoming British banks. Scottish financial institutions they're not.
And without the SNP having pushed there would be no Scottish parliament and no protection against the future Tory cuts.
As for the rest, none of your affair. |
aw naw, not thatcher again. is that desperate you are. |
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landg
This is Ma' Life!
Joined: 05 Aug 2009
Posts: 617
Location: awaiting approval by a mod/admin
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Stevie wrote: | | Braveheart wrote: |
They're nationalists.
They say many things.
They don't deliver much though.
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The SNP has delivered its first government and the Scots are not complaining (well, you are).
You're trying hard though, even you believe what you're saying.
The facts :
The Brits have got: very high unemployment, £170 billion of debt, the longest recession since WWII and MPs ripping off the tax payer through expenses. They are about to make severe spending cuts and you are boasting about the Brit Labour Party.
Nitpicking... |
would you mind not using the term 'brit' or 'brits'. in britain and particulary ireland this is a deragotory term for a british person. 'brit' is an offensive abbreviation similar to 'p**i'. i personally find it offensive.
not living in britain you were perhaps not aware of that. |
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landg
This is Ma' Life!
Joined: 05 Aug 2009
Posts: 617
Location: awaiting approval by a mod/admin
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Stevie wrote: | | As for the rest, none of your affair. |
quite right to, you have no need to publish any of your personal details or anything personal at all on such a website. good for you standing up for that. i agree completely. |
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Stevie
Independentist
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Posts: 1179
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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landg, when they stop saying the 'nats' then I'll happily not use the term.
However, being that you asked so nicely, I'll not use that term with you.
_________________
Every man dies, not every man really lives.
Alba gu brąth! |
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Zed
No Longer a Wean
Joined: 07 Jan 2009
Posts: 75
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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| landg wrote: | | Stevie wrote: | | Braveheart wrote: |
They're nationalists.
They say many things.
They don't deliver much though.
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The SNP has delivered its first government and the Scots are not complaining (well, you are).
You're trying hard though, even you believe what you're saying.
The facts :
The Brits have got: very high unemployment, £170 billion of debt, the longest recession since WWII and MPs ripping off the tax payer through expenses. They are about to make severe spending cuts and you are boasting about the Brit Labour Party.
Nitpicking... |
would you mind not using the term 'brit' or 'brits'. in britain and particulary ireland this is a deragotory term for a british person. 'brit' is an offensive abbreviation similar to 'p**i'. i personally find it offensive.
not living in britain you were perhaps not aware of that. |
I watched the Brit Awards not so long ago. Perhaps we should tell them their whole show is derogatory and offensive 
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If only a Nation can awake and join, we shall be as one ! |
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landg
This is Ma' Life!
Joined: 05 Aug 2009
Posts: 617
Location: awaiting approval by a mod/admin
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Stevie wrote: | landg, when they stop saying the 'nats' then I'll happily not use the term.
However, being that you asked so nicely, I'll not use that term with you. |
i have never used that derogatory term.
anyway, a wee link to underline the deragotory nature of the term.
http://ograshinnfein.blogspot.com/2008/02/brits-out.html |
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Stevie
Independentist
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Posts: 1179
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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You know very well what I think about all that sectarian stuff.
Anyway, I'm using the term Brit Nat not Brit and it's definitely not sectarian.
As I said, I won't use the term with you.
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Every man dies, not every man really lives.
Alba gu brąth! |
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landg
This is Ma' Life!
Joined: 05 Aug 2009
Posts: 617
Location: awaiting approval by a mod/admin
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Stevie wrote: | You know very well what I think about all that sectarian stuff.
Anyway, I'm using the term Brit Nat not Brit and it's definitely not sectarian.
As I said, I won't use the term with you. |
The facts :
The Brits have got: very high unemployment, £170 billion of debt, the longest recession since WWII and MPs ripping off the tax payer through expenses. They are about to make severe spending cuts and you are boasting about the Brit Labour Party.
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Stevie
Independentist
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Posts: 1179
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary
Definition
Brit noun
/brɪt/ n [C] informal
a British person
You could tell by their clothes that they were Brits.
The Cambridge dic. says it's correct and I use Brit Nat.
Anyway, you're quoting from before I said I'd not refer to you personally as a Brit Nat.
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Every man dies, not every man really lives.
Alba gu brąth! |
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landg
This is Ma' Life!
Joined: 05 Aug 2009
Posts: 617
Location: awaiting approval by a mod/admin
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Stevie wrote: | Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary
Definition
Brit noun
/brɪt/ n [C] informal
a British person
You could tell by their clothes that they were Brits.
The Cambridge dic. says it's correct and I use Brit Nat.
Anyway, you're quoting from before I said I'd not refer to you personally as a Brit Nat. |
from before
what does that mean?
'from before' as in you used to do it but it's all right now? |
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Ultra
This is Ma' Life!
Joined: 29 Sep 2009
Posts: 652
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Dave Coull wrote: | | Ultra wrote: | | Lloyds TSB Scotland, HBOS, and RBS are owned operated and controlled in Scotland. |
LLOYDS is/was a LONDON bank. When they took over the TSB, it was the traditional Lloyds of London sign, the Black Horse, that went up on all their branches. As for HALIFAX bank of scotland, HALIFAX is in Yorkshire. These are BRITISH banks. The British government didn't have the money to bail out the British banks, so they borrowed billions of dollars (which we will all be paying for) on the international market in order to do so, because they considered this in the interests of Britain. Whether it was in the interests of Scotland is another matter. |
They are actually global banks operated and controlled from Scotland and head officed in Scotland.
RBS and HBOS both have massive head office sites on the outskirts of Edinburgh. Registered addresses are Edinburgh. Lloyds TSB has several sites in Glasgow. One being a main head office in the financial services districts.
HBOS and RBS are Scottish clearing banks which print Scottish bank notes.
The amusing thing is when these banks were successful the nationalists talked up how wonderful they were and excellent advert for Scottish businesses.
Now they have been bailed out they become British banks controlled in London and global institutions which should have been let to go bust.
If they go bust alot of people would have lost savings, shareholdings, pensions, and other investments. Plus money banked with these banks.
It also wasn't the UK Government who forced the sales and closure of benaches. It was the EU competition regulators who felt the banks had become too big and reduced competition. |
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Dave Coull
Independentista
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2809
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Folk seem to have wandered a long way from the subject of this thread. The premise that was put forward is "Nationalists 'give up' on 2010 referendum". No evidence has been produced to support that premise. I personally thought there should have been a referendum sooner, but that wasn't what the SNP promised. They promised that, if elected with a majority in the Scottish Parliament , they would hold a referendum "within the lifetime of this parliament". Since the Scottish parliament is elected for four years, and since they made that promise in 2007, that meant a referendum by 2011. They have since stated they want a referendum in 2010. But first they have to get the legislation through parliament. They say they intend to seek to do this. But since they were not in fact elected with a majority in the Scottish Parliament, since they are a minority government, they can't guarantee to be successful. If the legislation doesn't get passed, that won't be Alex Salmond's fault, AS LONG AS he and his colleagues do actually put the legislation before parliament. It has been suggested that, in putting the legislation before parliament, Salmond will just be going through the motions. Well, even if that were true, it would be better than not even going through the motions. In any case, I don't accept the Unionist propaganda about "inevitable defeat". It still remains to be seen if all of the MSPs belonging to the Labour, the LibDem, and the Tory parties will actually vote against a referendum. |
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landg
This is Ma' Life!
Joined: 05 Aug 2009
Posts: 617
Location: awaiting approval by a mod/admin
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Dave Coull wrote: | | Folk seem to have wandered a long way from the subject of this thread. The premise that was put forward is "Nationalists 'give up' on 2010 referendum". No evidence has been produced to support that premise. I personally thought there should have been a referendum sooner, but that wasn't what the SNP promised. They promised that, if elected with a majority in the Scottish Parliament , they would hold a referendum "within the lifetime of this parliament". Since the Scottish parliament is elected for four years, and since they made that promise in 2007, that meant a referendum by 2011. They have since stated they want a referendum in 2010. But first they have to get the legislation through parliament. They say they intend to seek to do this. But since they were not in fact elected with a majority in the Scottish Parliament, since they are a minority government, they can't guarantee to be successful. If the legislation doesn't get passed, that won't be Alex Salmond's fault, AS LONG AS he and his colleagues do actually put the legislation before parliament. It has been suggested that, in putting the legislation before parliament, Salmond will just be going through the motions. Well, even if that were true, it would be better than not even going through the motions. In any case, I don't accept the Unionist propaganda about "inevitable defeat". It still remains to be seen if all of the MSPs belonging to the Labour, the LibDem, and the Tory parties will actually vote against a referendum. |
davey chap. you are f***ing deluded. |
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Dave Coull
Independentista
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2809
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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| landg wrote: | | davey chap. you are f***ing deluded. |
At least I know the difference between "dividend" and "divided". |
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Ultra
This is Ma' Life!
Joined: 29 Sep 2009
Posts: 652
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Dave Coull wrote: | | Folk seem to have wandered a long way from the subject of this thread. The premise that was put forward is "Nationalists 'give up' on 2010 referendum". No evidence has been produced to support that premise. I personally thought there should have been a referendum sooner, but that wasn't what the SNP promised. They promised that, if elected with a majority in the Scottish Parliament , they would hold a referendum "within the lifetime of this parliament". Since the Scottish parliament is elected for four years, and since they made that promise in 2007, that meant a referendum by 2011. They have since stated they want a referendum in 2010. But first they have to get the legislation through parliament. They say they intend to seek to do this. But since they were not in fact elected with a majority in the Scottish Parliament, since they are a minority government, they can't guarantee to be successful. If the legislation doesn't get passed, that won't be Alex Salmond's fault, AS LONG AS he and his colleagues do actually put the legislation before parliament. It has been suggested that, in putting the legislation before parliament, Salmond will just be going through the motions. Well, even if that were true, it would be better than not even going through the motions. In any case, I don't accept the Unionist propaganda about "inevitable defeat". It still remains to be seen if all of the MSPs belonging to the Labour, the LibDem, and the Tory parties will actually vote against a referendum. |
If Labour, Conservative's, and Lib Dem MSP's have been elected to stand based on a unionist stand point, what makes you think this will change when it comes to an independence referendum and they will suddenly vote for an independence bill?
The fact is most Scotland's aren't interested in independence bore out by opinion polls each month.
Voters may well wonder why the SNP are still pursuing a referendum bill when it's highly likely to be defeated and deflect attention away from Scotland having high unemployment figures and still being in recession.
The very things the SNP are pointing the finger at Westminister about may well come back to haunt them.
If Salmond can't get support for his independence referendum bill then who's fault is it? He was the one who made the election pledge to deliver after all. |
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Holebender
Ready For Afterlife!
Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 2752
Location: Here or There
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Braveheart wrote: | | Holebender wrote: | | You had better produce a source for that statement of yours. My recollection was they said they would publish a white paper within 100 days (which they did) and introduce the legislation to hold the referendum within the lifetime of the parliament. I'm willing to search for evidence to back my recollections, are you? |
try this.... http://www.heraldscotland.com/snp...ferendum-pledge-in-doubt-1.851024
It's from Jan 2007 and it includes | Quote: | The SNP promise to hold a referendum on independence was yesterday called into question, as Alex Salmond opened up room for coalition negotiations after the May election.
The SNP pledge to hold a referendum on independence - as early as this year - was yesterday thrown into doubt...........The SNP leader said the party remained determined to have a referendum within the four-year term, but previously he had promised to move swiftly to legislation for a referendum. Yesterday's change should give him more room to compromise with other potential coalition partners - Liberal Democrats in particular - on when that might be and under what conditions.......
....He had previously said the bill would be introduced within 100 days, and his party has published a bill to illustrate how simple it could be.
However, he dismissed the sample bill yesterday. "There is a world of difference between being an opposition saying this is what we're talking about' and being in government." |
I don't think it could be clearer...he had previously said there would be a bill within 100 days, and then he changed his mind.
And he stil hasn't published the bill.
Over to you. |
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/6492787.stm 25 March 2007
| Quote: | [Alex Salmond] confirmed to the Sunday Herald that the Nationalists would aim for a ballot at the end of an SNP-led administration.
He told the paper: "I'm persuaded the key argument is about the SNP building up credibility in government, which is the essential requirement to win an independence referendum.
"The referendum would be close to the end of the four-year term."
It is understood the process for a vote would see a white paper being laid before Holyrood in the first 100 days after this May's parliamentary election, followed by a bill giving the choice of independence, leading to a referendum to be held by 2010. |
That was the SNP position going into the 2007 election; a white paper, including a sample draft bill, within 100 days followed by a referendum near the end of the four year term.
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Ultra
This is Ma' Life!
Joined: 29 Sep 2009
Posts: 652
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Holebender wrote: | [Alex Salmond] confirmed to the Sunday Herald that the Nationalists would aim for a ballot at the end of an SNP-led administration.
He told the paper: "I'm persuaded the key argument is about the SNP building up credibility in government, which is the essential requirement to win an independence referendum.
"The referendum would be close to the end of the four-year term."
It is understood the process for a vote would see a white paper being laid before Holyrood in the first 100 days after this May's parliamentary election, followed by a bill giving the choice of independence, leading to a referendum to be held by 2010.
That was the SNP position going into the 2007 election; a white paper, including a sample draft bill, within 100 days followed by a referendum near the end of the four year term. |
Is that not the point Braveheart and others are making that Salmond has promised a referendum but it's highly unlikely he will be able to deliver this as he does not have the support of the 3 main political parties to get the bill passed through Parliament?
So in effect you have just proved that if Salmond's referendum bill fails, then this would be another failed SNP election promise. |
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Dave Coull
Independentista
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2809
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Ultra wrote: | | If Labour, Conservative's, and Lib Dem MSP's have been elected to stand based on a unionist stand point, what makes you think this will change |
Who said anything about it changing? Not me. But there are plenty of signs of support amongst supporters of these parties for holding a referendum. Not one single MSP was elected on a manifesto of opposing holding a referendum. They could support the referendum AND support the unionist position in that referendum. | Ultra wrote: | | If Salmond can't get support for his independence referendum bill then who's fault is it? |
Well, one possible answer would be, it's at least partly the fault of the London-based leaderships of these parties for whipping their MSPs into line and refusing to allow them a free vote on this matter of individual conscience. |
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Ultra
This is Ma' Life!
Joined: 29 Sep 2009
Posts: 652
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Dave Coull wrote: | | Ultra wrote: | | If Labour, Conservative's, and Lib Dem MSP's have been elected to stand based on a unionist stand point, what makes you think this will change |
Who said anything about it changing? Not me. But there are plenty of signs of support amongst supporters of these parties for holding a referendum. Not one single MSP was elected on a manifesto of opposing holding a referendum. They could support the referendum AND support the unionist position in that referendum. | Ultra wrote: | | If Salmond can't get support for his independence referendum bill then who's fault is it? |
Well, one possible answer would be, it's at least partly the fault of the London-based leaderships of these parties for whipping their MSPs into line and refusing to allow them a free vote on this matter of individual conscience. |
Dave it's just a play on words to even suggest that unionist voters vote candidates on a position of a unionist stand point and the candidate would back a referendum. If these parties don't want independence in the first place, they are unlikely to even want a referendum.
You can't blame the other parties for voting a certain way if that is what they stand for. Salmond should not make promises he cannot keep and then deflect responsibility for those on to the unionist parties.
I saw the same sort of arguments on Question Time with regards to the EU which the SNP use when talking about Westminister. By the looks of things Scotland would become a state within the EU sooner or later and decisions made from Brussels.
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