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Rinty · Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 10:45 pm Post subject: j

Waterboy, please cut down on the personal insults. Either argue your point or drop it, you cannot call name-calling debate!

Morph · Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 2:47 am Post subject:

But RTB, Bilbao and the catalans barcelona are spanish, who play in a spanish league, but would like to be seperate from spain.

However celtic are a Scottish club, who play in Scotland but feel the need to link themselves to ireland?

Can you see a slight difference here?
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"An oppressive government is to be more feared than a tiger"

parkhead_rfb · Getting on a bit! Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974

they are not spanish clubs they are basque and catalonian clubs, it is the spanish state that defines them as spanish not the clubs themselves.

yes there is a slight difference but these clubs still have vocal supports over political issues, they must all then be considered sectarian under waterboys reasoning.

st paulia fans in germany also staged a free dixie protest in support of the republican pow are they sectarian?
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"our revenge will be the laughter of our children" bobby sands MP

"there is no equality in a society that stands upon the political and economic bog, if only the strongest make it good or survive" bobby sands MP

Morph · Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 2:30 pm Post subject:

The point may be that these people are standing up for political change eg seperate states for the Basques and Catalans from spain. But celtic supporters call for irish home rule, IMO although this may not be totally true not being a Celtic fan myself. But irish home rule would not make a big difference to the majority of the fans of this club as they live in Scotland not Ireland
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"An oppressive government is to be more feared than a tiger"

SLG · Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 2:40 pm Post subject:

Morph · Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 2:45 pm Post subject:

The link is justified although so much weaker looking when compared to the basque and catalan sides. Although it was set up by Irish immigrants who looked for work in glasgow during the industrial revolution it is still essentially a Scottish club set up in a Scotlands biggest city. If Celtic were a club in Belfast i would agree a lot more with the above arguements
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"An oppressive government is to be more feared than a tiger"

SLG · Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 2:57 pm Post subject:

Well, I'd agree with you Morph. I find it a bit difficult to understand. But the fact of the matter is clear to see at Parkhead every second weekend. I think a big part of it is the Old Firm rivalry keeping it alive. The two play of each other. If one were to disappear, I'm sure the other would (while keeping much of the tradition) become much more Scottish in there outlook.

I wonder if Scots teams played in a British league we would see a lot more Scots nationalist sentiment.

Morph · Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 5:30 pm Post subject:

not sure although it may be the case as they do come together at scotland games and the like. One common enemy Laughing

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"An oppressive government is to be more feared than a tiger"

parkhead_rfb · Getting on a bit! Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974

what about the st paulia fans and there anti fascist and irish republican outlook? what are your opinions on these fans?

the irish connection is what makes celtic a special club for so many and we have every right to celebrate it, what would be the point in flying saltires in the spl, everyone knows where a scottish club in the spl. if you travel abroad with celtic you will notice a good number of saltires but primarily you will see the irish tri colour as it is the irish connection which makes us distinctive.
_________________
"our revenge will be the laughter of our children" bobby sands MP

"there is no equality in a society that stands upon the political and economic bog, if only the strongest make it good or survive" bobby sands MP

Rinty · Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 5:41 pm Post subject: k

Morph, all over the world we can see sporting clubs with Scottish influence flying St Andrews and Lion Rampant flags and calling themselves scottish sounding names like caledonian, thistle or st andrews.

Although these clubs may be in Argentina, Australia, America, Canada, africa and other places they still attract the Scots who settle in these countries as well as locals and people of scots descent.

Celtic were set up as a team that were scots and irish, thats why they chose the name Celtic rather than Hibernian or Shamrock that were popular with other teams founded by Irish immigrants. They are no different from Boston Celtics apart from the fact that Glasgow Celtic are in a city that can be easily travelled to from Ireland, has a large Irish population and are existing in a background of a West of Scotland that was plagued by sectarianism before Celtic existed and will do so after they are gone.

I am always slightly disturbed by the notion that Celtic fans and the club displaying their Irishness is somehow offensive to people who are not Irish, and wonder why our "one scotland many cultures" still seems uncomfortable with the largest immigrant culture and closest related culture to our own.

Morph · Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 5:42 pm Post subject:

Does that make it ok for rangers to fly the union jack?
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"An oppressive government is to be more feared than a tiger"

Rinty · Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 5:59 pm Post subject: m

SLG · Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 6:22 pm Post subject:

parkhead_rfb · Getting on a bit! Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974

st paulia are a german club, they regularly host irish republican events, i will try and find a link for you.
_________________
"our revenge will be the laughter of our children" bobby sands MP

"there is no equality in a society that stands upon the political and economic bog, if only the strongest make it good or survive" bobby sands MP

Rinty · Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 9:21 pm Post subject: t

They are a team with a left wing following and came to be friends with the celtic support through joint working against nazis.

http://www.netleyabbeytartanarmy.net/sept-087.jpg

Morph · Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 12:39 am Post subject:

but far left is just as bad as far right
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"An oppressive government is to be more feared than a tiger"

Rinty · Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 8:22 am Post subject: j

Morph · Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 1:09 pm Post subject:

No you are right i read that one a bit quickly last night after a few cocktails Very Happy

And to your next question in other terms far left being extermists, they are just as threatinging and dangerous as the far right. Its almost like the sectarian problem with rangers and celtic both as bad as one another, but you are right this is not for the football forum
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"An oppressive government is to be more feared than a tiger"

parkhead_rfb · Getting on a bit! Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974

which sectarian songs are sung at celtic park? why is our problem just as bad?

twice in a row there you have used lazy stereotypes.
_________________
"our revenge will be the laughter of our children" bobby sands MP

"there is no equality in a society that stands upon the political and economic bog, if only the strongest make it good or survive" bobby sands MP

Morph · Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:37 am Post subject:

So while Rangers are singing horrible sectarian songs, those sung at celtic gloryfing the IRa and song which are used to provoke a Rangers response are just innocent. Parkhead take off the green tinted glasses
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"An oppressive government is to be more feared than a tiger"