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parkhead_rfb Getting on a bit!
Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974
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Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 10:08 pm Post subject: how ordinary people become 'terrorists' |
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BOBBY SANDS: HOW ORDINARY PEOPLE BECOME 'TERRORISTS'
A new book by Denis O’Hearn about Irish hunger striker Bobby Sands shows the violence of the British state in 1981. We reproduce three extracts, and an introduction to the events
Background.
Twenty five years ago, Irish Republican prisoners went on hunger strike in the H-Blocks of Long Kesh prison in Northern Ireland. After 66 days Bobby Sands, aged 27, was the first of ten hunger strikers the British government allowed to die.
Tory prime minister Margaret Thatcher denounced Sands as a “criminal” and “terrorist” on the day of his death.
Sands and the other hunger strikers were ordinary working class Catholics who found themselves up against the extraordinary violence and repression of the British state.
Republican prisoners were prepared to starve themselves to death for the right to be treated as political prisoners.
Sands was typical of the men and women who joined the IRA [Irish Republican Army]. His family were twice forced to flee their home by Loyalist gangs. Loyalists threatened Sands at gunpoint when he worked as an apprentice coach builder.
He later wrote in an article smuggled out of prison, “I had seen too many homes wrecked, fathers and sons arrested, friends murdered. Too much gas, shootings and blood, most of it our own people’s. At 18 and a half I joined the IRA.”
Sands was arrested in the early 1970s. Like other Republican prisoners he was given “special category status”, which allowed them to wear their own clothes and associate freely.
He read widely in prison. His favourites were the political writings of Franz Fanon and Che Guevara. He was arrested again in 1976, tortured in the Castlereagh interrogation centre and sentenced to 14 years.
It was a Labour government in 1975 which introduced a policy of trying to “criminalise” the Republican movement.
The government had been embarrassed by international criticism of the number of political prisoners – then 3,000 – in Northern Ireland’s jails. Labour’s Northern Ireland secretary Merlyn Rees withdrew political status from prisoners.
The fight to regain political status began in 1976. Prisoner, Ciaran Nugent refused to wear a prison uniform.
He was forced to sleep on a concrete floor with only a blanket. Hundreds of other prisoners joined him “on the blanket”, and two years later nearly 400 Republican prisoners began a “dirty protest” after prison officers deliberately spilt s**t and piss from chamber pots on cell floors.
A hunger strike began with seven prisoners in October 1980. It ended two months later when the now Tory government seemed to offer concessions. The government reneged, and a second hunger strike began in March 1981, led by Bobby Sands.
The hunger strikes won huge support in Ireland, North and South, and around the world. Sands was elected as MP for Fermanagh and South Tyrone a month before he died.
Over 100,000 people attended his funeral.
PEACEFUL CIVIL RIGHTS MARCHERS BRUTALLY ASSAULTED BY POLICE
This first extract explains how the young Sands was politicised
Society was splitting apart. For Catholics in mixed areas, the most immediate worry was the emergence of violent racist gangs. Rathcoole’s were among the worst. Years later, Bobby Sands wrote that his “life began to change” after 1968.
Civil rights marchers took to the streets and he watched as the television news showed the police attacking them.
Sands was particularly impressed in early 1969, when a group of students from Queens University in Belfast set off on a civil rights march to Derry.
Along the way they were repeatedly ambushed and the police blocked them from entering towns. The RUC were often observed chatting amiably with the attackers.
As the students reached Burntollet Bridge outside of Derry, several hundred B-Special paramilitaries viciously attacked them.
“My sympathy and feelings really became aroused after watching the scenes at Burntollet,” he wrote.
“That imprinted itself on my mind like a scar, and for the first time I took a real interest in what was going on… I became angry.”
Bobby’s anger grew throughout 1969 as the conflict heightened. In April, the police banned a civil rights march in the Bogside area of Derry.
During the rioting that followed, a group of RUC men burst into a house and beat the Catholic owner to death. In August, a huge crowd of Protestants attacked Unity flats in Belfast.
When local Catholics resisted, the RUC went on a violent rampage, beating one man unconscious and batoning another to death. Three people had now died from the recent outbreak of “the troubles.” All were Catholics. All had been beaten in the head by police batons.
By August, the trouble spiralled. In Derry, some older Republicans set up a defense committee to confront the trouble that always accompanied an annual Loyalist march around the city’s old walls.
They set up barricades at the entrances to the Bogside and when the marchers threw pennies at them the Bogsiders threw stones back. When the police attempted to invade the Bogside, Catholic missiles drove them back.
Soon, they were firing petrol bombs and CS gas at each other. After two days of intense fighting, the British government sent in its army for the first time since the end of the IRA’s 1950s campaign.
Catholics like Bobby Sands watched the “Battle of the Bogside”on their TVs at home, encouraged by the feeling that they were recognized internationally as being “in the right.”
Back in Belfast, the police patrolled the Catholic lower Falls district in armored cars mounted with .30-inch Browning machine guns.
Catholics used stones and petrol bombs against the big machine guns while groups of Protestants and B-Specials took advantage of the melee and attacked Catholic houses. The RUC drove around Catholic streets, firing randomly.
When they were done, nine-year-old Patrick Rooney lay dead in his bed with his brains scattered against the wall. In north Belfast, police shot dead one man as he sat in his front room and another as he walked along the road. Ten others were injured, eight of them by police bullets.
All were Catholics. To Catholics, many of whom initially welcomed them to their streets as protectors, the British army made a bad situation worse.
They stood by while Protestant crowds burned out hundreds of Catholic homes. The violence went down in the memory of an increasingly angry and militant Catholic community as “the pogrom.”
These events had a significant impact on Bobby Sands. Not only did he begin to link the police with violence against Catholics, he also began to view the British army as the enemy. Catholics generally began to feel that they must defend themselves.
Yet they had no weapons and even the IRA had failed to stand up to their attackers. A famous wall slogan went up: “IRA=I Ran Away.”
By Christmas, a group of militants broke from the IRA and formed the Provisional IRA Army Council and an associated political party, Provisional Sinn Féin (the old movement became known as the Official IRA and Official Sinn Féin).
The Provisionals promised to protect the Catholic community, and eventually organized an all-out offensive against British occupation.
BRITAIN'S ABU GHRAIB IN 1981
In this second extract, Bobby Sands is on dirty protest
At nine o’clock on Tuesday night “the lads gave the furniture the message”. They broke up their wooden beds, the tables, and chairs. Some tried to break out their windows. After half an hour, ten warders came to Bobby’s wing.
Whatever the prisoners expected, what happened was even worse. The screws moved them from B-wing to C-wing, and “they didn’t allow them to walk over, instead they grabbed them by the hair and run them over, kicking and punching the whole time”.
According to Bobby, six men were thrown over a table. The cheeks of their behinds were torn apart by screws.
“Comrade, this is sexual assault,” he wrote to Liam Óg.
The same thing was happening over in H5. The screws organised a gauntlet between the clean wing and the dirty wing. Each prisoner was beaten to a pulp as he ran from his clean cell to the new dirty cell.
Men who were waiting to be moved listened to the shouting and the screaming, waiting in horror for their own turn.
Bobby described the scene that awaited them: “C-wing has just been vacated… The cells were bogging, covered in excreta, also puddles of water on cell floors where the cleaner had begun work.”
The prisoners were left in darkness in filthy cells, with no water to drink, no beds, and “not even a bloody blanket”.
All they had was the towel they wore around their waist. The men who went through that night agree that it was the worst night of their lives.
They were freezing. They were sore. And it was one thing to live in your own s**t; being thrown into another man’s s**t was positively sickening.
Bobby organised a singsong to keep them going. Each man walked up and down his cell, trying to keep warm, singing along to the songs. But before long, they’d had enough.
They just tried to concentrate on getting some heat into themselves – walking up and down, sitting down and then getting up, rubbing their bodies and hopping from foot to foot. But Bobby kept going, trying to take everyone’s mind off of the conditions.
All night long he just kept up a constant banter, singing away on his own, shouting down: “Are you all right? C’mon boys!”
All night, while Bobby kept up their spirits, prisoners rang the buzzers to call the warders. No one came.
One prisoner took sick twice in the middle of the night but no one came to help. It was eight o’ clock the next morning before the warders came back on the wing. When they arrived, six men had to go to the doctor.
The PO finally came at 10am and gave the men, in Bobby’s words, “half a fuckin’ blanket each!” The governor came at 11am.
Each man asked for a complaint form so that their lawyer could charge Governor Hilditch with breaches of prison rules.
That afternoon, the warders left the dinner sitting until it was cold and then distributed it to the men. It was nearly 1:30am when they finally received bedding.
“We sat all night naked, up until five minutes ago, before the bastards found it in themselves to give us blankets and mattresses,” Bobby complained to Liam Óg. “The boys are exhausted, the wing’s like a morgue, all asleep… I’m away for a sleep, think I’m sleeping now!”
STORIES ABOUT STRUGGLE
In this third extract, Bobby Sands is on hunger strike
Night time belonged to the prisoners. Once the warders left, they began their nightly routine of cigarette manufacture, button shooting, news broadcasting, and general entertainment.
After the religious prisoners said the rosary and everyone distributed cigarettes and messages, there was debate and discussion.
The men told the time by the night guard’s “bell checks”. He came on at nine o’clock and every hour he pushed the security grille at the bottom of the wing to show that he had checked the cells.
Time was measured by the first bell check at nine, the second at ten, and the third at 11. After the third bell check, the last business of the night was entertainment, including the “book at bedtime”.
The storyteller pulled his mattress up to his cell door and shouted out a story while the rest of the men lay, listening. All the surfaces in the prison were hard, with nothing to dampen sound, so noises travelled. When the book was a good one and the storyteller was engaging, everyone got lost in the story.
Bobby told an array of stories. His speciality was epics. His story of Geronimo and his Apache guerrillas “epitomised everything that he thought a human being should be,” says Richard O’Rawe.
“Compassionate but unbreakable, fighting the whole of America on his own.” There were other stories, all about struggle. Bobby told Trinity (by Leon Uris) several times and How Green Was My Valley, about the Welsh miners. He told Doctor Zhivago.
The other prisoners began to learn political lessons from the stories.“Bob’s stories were all about heroes… It was always about the individual against the establishment and how the individual, no matter what happened, couldn’t be broken.
If he had to fight them all on his own, so be it. If he had to die, so be it. That’s just the way he was. That was his mentality. Bob just had a spirit that couldn’t be tamed, and he wasn’t going to allow it to be tamed. If it came to it, he was going to fight them on his own, he was going to carry the burden of everybody.”
It was not long before Sands told a story that became legendary among the blanketmen. He said that he had read a novel the last time he was in the prison hospital. Its title was Jet.
Like all of Bobby’s books, Jet was a story of someone pursuing and winning freedom in the face of all the oppression that the forces of reaction could muster.
Jet was about a man who took on the US military-industrial complex and achieved his own personal freedom through struggle.
To the prisoners, it was a story about them, about how they could achieve an inner freedom even as they lay isolated in their grim cells, surrounded by barbed wire and concrete and a hostile force of screws.
For a couple of hours a night as they listened to Bobby tell his stories, they were free. Their mind’s eyes took them beyond the walls, beyond the razor wire, wherever Bobby chose to take them.
Each prisoner latched onto his words and created a vivid image of a place where, at that time, they most wanted to be… free, in struggle.
The blanketmen lay on their foam mattresses, miles away from the maggots and the s**t, imagining.
Bobby was their travel agent and their guide and these stories, perhaps more than any other aspect of his seemingly tireless efforts to organise the prison struggle, turned him into their leader.
They followed him because he could take them to the most special of places. He never let them down.
Source: Simon Basketter @ Socialist Worker.
_________________ "our revenge will be the laughter of our children" bobby sands MP
"there is no equality in a society that stands upon the political and economic bog, if only the strongest make it good or survive" bobby sands MP |
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Aventinian 'Our Scotland' Fossil

Joined: 10 Dec 2005 Posts: 4276 Location: Broadcasting From An Anonymous Location Within the United Kingdom.
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Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 11:08 pm Post subject: Re: how ordinary people become 'terrorists' |
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| parkhead_rfb wrote: | | Twenty five years ago, Irish Republican prisoners went on hunger strike in the H-Blocks of Long Kesh prison in Northern Ireland. After 66 days Bobby Sands, aged 27, was the first of ten hunger strikers the British government allowed to die. |
I stopped reading here. What ridiculous nonsense - people are going to go on hunger strike and then criticise others for not force-feeding them? Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Quite simple biased crap. |
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Lothian Sky I Love 'Our Scotland'
Joined: 04 Feb 2006 Posts: 350
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Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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| As much as I can accept that some communities feel they have no choice but to fight back, bombing the innocent solves f*ck all. Not in Ireland, not in Palestine, not anywhere. |
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kalashnikov No Longer a Wean

Joined: 17 Sep 2005 Posts: 93
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Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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I agree LS, individual terrorism holds no solution for the problems faced by people living under occupation, however I think there is a big difference between the politics of Bobby Sands and IRA terrorist bombings on innocent people. I have alot of respect for Sands and I dont believe he had ever supported attacks on ordinary people. _________________ If you remove the English army to-morrow and hoist the green flag over Dublin Castle, unless you set about the organisation of the Socialist Republic your efforts would be in vain. - James Connolly |
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RBK I Love 'Our Scotland'
Joined: 03 Oct 2005 Posts: 260 Location: Ulster
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Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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Were Irish people in Kilburn London,in Liverpool,in Birmingham,in Glasgow ,in Edinburgh and hundreds of other places not living under this 'British oppressive regime'.
Many seem to have preferred it to the R.O.I.
ENGLISH ASCENDANCY AND IRISH CHAUVINISM HAVE COMBINED TO SUPPRESS KNOWLEDGE OF ULSTER AND ULSTER HISTORY |
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parkhead_rfb Getting on a bit!
Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974
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Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 6:34 pm Post subject: Re: how ordinary people become 'terrorists' |
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| Aventinian wrote: | | parkhead_rfb wrote: | | Twenty five years ago, Irish Republican prisoners went on hunger strike in the H-Blocks of Long Kesh prison in Northern Ireland. After 66 days Bobby Sands, aged 27, was the first of ten hunger strikers the British government allowed to die. |
I stopped reading here. What ridiculous nonsense - people are going to go on hunger strike and then criticise others for not force-feeding them? Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Quite simple biased crap. |
the comment they allowed them to die is in reference to the fact that they did not recognise their right as political prisoners. _________________ "our revenge will be the laughter of our children" bobby sands MP
"there is no equality in a society that stands upon the political and economic bog, if only the strongest make it good or survive" bobby sands MP |
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parkhead_rfb Getting on a bit!
Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974
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Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Lothian Sky wrote: | | As much as I can accept that some communities feel they have no choice but to fight back, bombing the innocent solves f*ck all. Not in Ireland, not in Palestine, not anywhere. |
the ira never deliberately attacked innocent civillians. unfortunately the ira did not have the means to support anything other than a guerilla campaign and unfortunately mistakes were made. what exactly were the alternatives though? its very easy to criticise but i would like to see some other alternatives to force a solution to the problem. the british government certainly didnt seem to give a damn from 1922 till 1969 and even then it took them three years to remove power from such an outright bigotry machine that was in place at stormont. _________________ "our revenge will be the laughter of our children" bobby sands MP
"there is no equality in a society that stands upon the political and economic bog, if only the strongest make it good or survive" bobby sands MP |
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Lothian Sky I Love 'Our Scotland'
Joined: 04 Feb 2006 Posts: 350
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Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:37 am Post subject: |
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I must confess have limited knowledge about Irish politics. I know the original IRA were (arguably) well justified in taking up arms against the British army, and the cruel and merciless treatment of the rebels galvanised the whole nationalist community behind the republican movement, eventually leading to independence for the catholic populated counties. I also accept that the Provisional IRA in Ulster, started off as a civil rights group, as catholics were discriminated against by the state, and terrorised by the loyalist community. The move to arms came after bloody sunday, as I understand it.
I'm not one of those knee-jerk reactionary types who breaks out in hives at every mention of Irish republicanism. I'm a republican myself. A Scottish republican.There were evil deeds on both sides, but as I said, targetting innocent civilians solves nothing. The IRA lost the moral high ground long, long ago, and the violence spiralled out of control. I don't accept that the IRA never targetted civilians. What about the bombing campaigns in London Manchester Guilford blah blah? These weren't the actions of splinter groups. What about the kneecappings, kidnaps, tit-for-tat killings etc.?
I know it's not easy to judge people when I haven't had to experience sectarianism and prejudice in my community, but I'd like to think that if I did decide to lift a gun, I would do my best to prevent the loss if innocent life. That's where the IRA lost the plot. As for Bobby Sands, he may be a hero to some, and a terrorist to others. I think he was just an silly wee laddie who got swept away by something he didn't understand. If any of us were put in the same situation, we may well have ended up the same way.
We could wax about this all day, but I am starting to question the point of dragging all this up on a site which is dedicated to Scotland, and Scotland's politics. Is there a point? You're not going to win any converts to a nationalist argument by dragging Ireland into every single post. I don't think the families of Scots soldiers who lost their lives would be as tolerant as we are!  |
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RBK I Love 'Our Scotland'
Joined: 03 Oct 2005 Posts: 260 Location: Ulster
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Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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Naturally I would disagree with some of the things that have been said and the spin put on them.
Suffice to say, that I have made my feelings known and see no point in keeping on harping about the same thing, over and over again. I think people have a fair idea of where they stand by now.
Argument makes little headway against conviction.
ENGLISH ASCENDANCY AND IRISH CHAUVINISM HAVE COMBINED TO SUPPRESS KNOWLEDGE OF ULSTER AND ULSTER HISTORY |
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Aventinian 'Our Scotland' Fossil

Joined: 10 Dec 2005 Posts: 4276 Location: Broadcasting From An Anonymous Location Within the United Kingdom.
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Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 3:27 pm Post subject: Re: how ordinary people become 'terrorists' |
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| parkhead_rfb wrote: | | the comment they allowed them to die is in reference to the fact that they did not recognise their right as political prisoners. |
Why should they be recognised as political prisoners even if they were (I still hold they're not, I'm just asking out of curiosity)? Did they just want that status or did they think there was some benefits that came along with it?
Anyway, not recognising them as political prisoners did not result in their death. There is no causal link.
| parkhead_rfb wrote: | | the ira never deliberately attacked innocent civillians. unfortunately the ira did not have the means to support anything other than a guerilla campaign and unfortunately mistakes were made. |
Complete nonsense!
Bombs in shopping centres and on public streets not intended to target civilians? Ha. The IRA knew fine well they'd kill civilians - even 'their own kind' - but did they care? No. To be honest I'm surprised they didn't just line up every one of 'their own' and keep shooting at them until the government gave into their demands... |
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Lothian Sky I Love 'Our Scotland'
Joined: 04 Feb 2006 Posts: 350
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Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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RBK, apologies I'm fairly new to the forum.
I haven't read much of your posts. Are you in favour of the "Ulster Nation" approach? |
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RBK I Love 'Our Scotland'
Joined: 03 Oct 2005 Posts: 260 Location: Ulster
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Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Lothian Sky wrote: | RBK, apologies I'm fairly new to the forum.
I haven't read much of your posts. Are you in favour of the "Ulster Nation" approach? |
Hi Lothian Sky
I do have a lot of sympathy with that point of view. It seems logical to me that both main parties to the present dispute would both gain and lose.
On the Republican/Nationalist side they would not be having an All-Ireland,but would be getting rid of the British presence from the island.
On the Unionist/Loyalist side they would lose the link with Britain,but would not be going into an All-Ireland.
It would seem though, that the only people who are actually losing anything would be the Unionist/Loyalists. So there could be quite a bit of opposition from that quarter.
I don't think the Nationalist/Republicans would go for it either. A lot of trust would be required, and I don't think there is much of it about at the moment. Maybe in the future.....who knows. But at the moment comprise is a dirty word in this neck of the woods.
ENGLISH ASCENDANCY AND IRISH CHAUVINISM HAVE COMBINED TO SUPPRESS KNOWLEDGE OF ULSTER AND ULSTER'S HISTORY |
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parkhead_rfb Getting on a bit!
Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974
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Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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it certainly wouldnt work whilst there is such hostility within the unionist community to even power sharing with nationalists. at present the largest unionist party is anti agreement and have been from the outset. Although many unionists would claim that this is due to decommissioning if you look at the sunningdale agreement the UUC only voted in favour of power sharing by ten votes and there was no inclusion of sinn fein in that process.
I am confident though that eventually population demographics will dictate such a nationalist majority that unification will be the only option. _________________ "our revenge will be the laughter of our children" bobby sands MP
"there is no equality in a society that stands upon the political and economic bog, if only the strongest make it good or survive" bobby sands MP |
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RBK I Love 'Our Scotland'
Joined: 03 Oct 2005 Posts: 260 Location: Ulster
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Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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They never ever could take Ulster by bomb and gun. They tried and failed miserably,and have done so over the centuries.
It is only within the democratic system,with Britain's help, that there is any chance of their objectives being obtained. And thats all it is... a chance.
Would Churchill share power with Hitler?. I shoulda have termed it non violent republicanism. To many people have died, for one side to sit down with the other. Only the future can tell if this will happen. But, it is the only feasible alternative. Or else, it could be a blood-bath that will make the last 30 odd years look a picnic
ENGLISH ASCENDANCY AND IRISH CHAUVINISM HAVE COMBINED TO SUPPRESS KNOWLEDGE OF ULSTER AND ULSTER'S HISTORY |
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parkhead_rfb Getting on a bit!
Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974
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Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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you do know that republicans werent involved in sunningdale the sdlp were the nationalist representatives yet the largest unionist party agreed to power sharing by just ten votes, incredible.
also your comparisons between republicans and hitler are as valid as your report you published a few weeks ago. _________________ "our revenge will be the laughter of our children" bobby sands MP
"there is no equality in a society that stands upon the political and economic bog, if only the strongest make it good or survive" bobby sands MP |
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RBK I Love 'Our Scotland'
Joined: 03 Oct 2005 Posts: 260 Location: Ulster
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Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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Well you would say that......now wouldn't you. Being a spokesman for murdering republicans and all the rest. The blood of the people,are as much on your hands as the it is on the doers of these evil deeds.
The cry of the innocents will not go away.
ENGLISH ASCENDANCY AND IRISH CHAUVINISM HAVE COMBINED TO SUPPRESS KNOWLEDGE OF ULSTER AND ULSTER'S HISTORY |
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parkhead_rfb Getting on a bit!
Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974
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Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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can you answer the point relating to sunningdale as to why the UUC only voted by ten votes in favour of power sharing despite the fact that only the SDLP were involved, does this indicate a real reluctance to power share with nationalists in general? _________________ "our revenge will be the laughter of our children" bobby sands MP
"there is no equality in a society that stands upon the political and economic bog, if only the strongest make it good or survive" bobby sands MP |
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RBK I Love 'Our Scotland'
Joined: 03 Oct 2005 Posts: 260 Location: Ulster
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Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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| parkhead_rfb wrote: | | can you answer the point relating to sunningdale as to why the UUC only voted by ten votes in favour of power sharing despite the fact that only the SDLP were involved, does this indicate a real reluctance to power share with nationalists in general? |
Your talking about Sunningdale. For heavens sake that was in the early 70s, a lot of water under the bridge since then, and they did share power with the sdlp. THATS A FACT
If an all-Ireland comes about. Will Unionists be given, as of right, a place in a Dublin goverment. Its called power-sharing.
Labour doesn't share power with the Tories. Its the norm for the rest of the country.
Will the S.N.P. if on becoming the biggest party in Scotland share power with the Tories or indeed Labour? Should the Tories and Labour have a say in the running of Scotland?. Even if the S.N.P. gets the most votes.
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azzuri 'Our Scotland' Fossil

Joined: 12 Sep 2005 Posts: 3777
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Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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how about a federal all-ireland with a separate Northern and Republic Parliament - would this suit both parties? _________________ "Every single person on this planet is unique. Just like everyone else..." - Random Guy in Edinburgh Pub
Possibly the funniest site in the world, 'The Daily Mash' - http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/ |
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RBK I Love 'Our Scotland'
Joined: 03 Oct 2005 Posts: 260 Location: Ulster
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Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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| rs_azzuri wrote: | | how about a federal all-ireland with a separate Northern and Republic Parliament - would this suit both parties? |
Would that not put Ulster in something like the situation Scotland is to-day.
Ruled by a goverment to the south of the island.
It could work, but the progress [or lack of it] in a state ruled by Dublin in the past boded ill for Unionists.
Their population decreased dramatically. Compare that with the increase of Nationalists in Ulster.
In the southern state the minority virtually dissappeared. In the northern state the minority grew and grew.
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