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parkhead_rfb · Getting on a bit! Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974

was it neccecary for them to form into new labout to become electable?

discuss

doing this as an exam question so some debate on here would be helpfull Very Happy

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"our revenge will be the laughter of our children" bobby sands MP

"there is no equality in a society that stands upon the political and economic bog, if only the strongest make it good or survive" bobby sands MP

azzuri · 'Our Scotland' Fossil Joined: 12 Sep 2005 Posts: 3792

as independent candidates no - 'old labour' candidates would have done just fine in Wales and Scotland and certain regions in England, however to become electable as a UK government I believe they did need to move from the left to the centre.

The collapse of the Soviet Union didn't help the peoples' faith in Socialism, that's for sure. And I've moved this to 'other politics' as this is more about the UK than Scotland.
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Aventinian · Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 3:33 am Post subject:

Yes, they did have to change. Greater affluence has meant that parties must appeal across the class spectrum, hence One Nation conservatism and New Labourism.

SLG · Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 1:14 pm Post subject:

Like the others say, there's not really too much to discuss. For a long time Labour had controlled it's heartlands, but never managed to make any headway into 'middle England'. Despite the problems of the Tory party, there was a large section in England that wouldn't trust them to run the country and wouldn't vote for a tax raising party. The only way to win in these area's was a radical redesign of the party.

parkhead_rfb · Getting on a bit! Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974

i actually disagree, i feel that had labour remained more unified after 79 it could have seriously challenged the conservatives, the split with the sd seriously damaged the party. the role of the unions in the party did have to be looked at, however, as i feel that they were paramount in labour losing a lot of support at the time.
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"our revenge will be the laughter of our children" bobby sands MP

"there is no equality in a society that stands upon the political and economic bog, if only the strongest make it good or survive" bobby sands MP

Rinty · Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 9:00 pm Post subject: y

History will tell us that it is cut and ried issue rfb, Labour had to reject the unions and clause 4 to get elected. However, it was more a case of becoming a party that tabloids could support in order to be able to get the press support to make them electable.

There is nothing to show that the people were any less or more likely to vote for socialism in the long term.

In effect it was the influence of press barons to put a stop to union barons.

Labour was a party that represented the workers as an extension of the trades union movement. Cutting the link effectively ended them as the labour party. The idea behind the Labour Party was to be the political wing of the union movement.

I believe that is probably right that if the Benn/Heffer wing of the party had prevailed they may not have won elections but it would have meant a serious left party bigger than say the Lib Dems are now, and also a possible re-alignment of centre parties involving the Social Democrats and Labour. Here in Scotland the SNP might have been the ones to benefit.

Hypothetical situations are not easy to predict but it is too easy to say Labour would never be elected unless they changed.

Right now the tories are trying to rebrand themselves in the image of one nation tories and/or New Labour. BUT there is just as much evidence to suggest a move to the right might be every bit as beneficial to the tories. They already beat Labour in terms of votes across England, the effect could have been huge if they captured the UKIP and some BNP votes.

If Cameron wins history will tell us that the tories needed to move to the centre to be lected, the reality is that we will never know.