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parkhead_rfb · Getting on a bit! Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974

ok its from the daily record but here goes...

SCOTS heading to Poland for stag trips are being warned not to lift their kilts - or our national dress could be banned.

The good burghers of Krakow and Warsaw are sick of the sight of boozed-up "men in skirts" flashing their bits in the street.

And the authorities in another popular stag night destination, the city of Wroclaw, have become so fed-up with the badly behaved minority of Scots they are seriously considering outlawing the kilt.

With beer at £1 a pint and £50 flights from Prestwick, Poland is fast becoming a favourite destination for Scots stag parties.

But a few morons seem determined to abuse the hospitality of the locals, and residents have made a string of complaints about kilt-lifting drunks.

Angry Agnieska Gaspar, 23, from Krakow, said: "You can't go round the corner without seeing a Scot showing off what he has under his kilt while one of his mates photographs him.

"I saw one lying in the gutter the other day with his kilt around his waist. He was drunk and it was freezing cold - I'm surprised he did not get frostbite."

The council in Wroclaw confirmed that they are looking into banning kilts, despite the police telling them they are perfectly legal.

A council spokesman asked: "Why would we want to see what Scotsmen wear under their kilts?

"We encourage people from all parts of the world to come here and enjoy themselves and obviously, if they want, to have a few drinks.

"The wearing of national dress is equally acceptable. But we do not want drunken hordes making people feel as if they do not want to go out on the streets at night for fear of who or what they might encounter.

"So far, the police have told us there can be no ban on kilts in our town as they are an accepted form of dress and there is nothing offensive about it.

"However, we are still looking into the matter. We have had a number of complaints from people who were confronted by drunks lifting their kilts and this is not the kind of behaviour our city wants to see."

A newspaper in Wroclaw has condemned the Scots' antics and carried photos of the flashers.

A spokesman for the paper, Dziennik, said: "It's easy to spot these so-called 'tourists' from a mile off. They wear kilts and leave behind them broken tables and chairs in bars.

"Then they stop people, smile at them and lift up their kilts to show what's underneath.

"But what is worse is that they go around doing it unpunished and our police do nothing. It is time to act."

Police in Wroclaw have now vowed to arrest kilt-lifters on sight.

Poland's representative in Scotland, consul general Aleksander Dietcow, branded the kilt-lifters "sad". He said: "I think part of the reason this is being highlighted is that because of their kilts, Scots are highly visible, especially when they misbehave."

Genuine kilt fans fear that the stag night yobs are tarnishing Scotland's reputation abroad.

Hamish Husband, of the west of Scotland arm of the Tartan Army, said: "This seems to go back to the warriors showing their bottoms in Braveheart. I think the danger is that this behaviour becomes associated with us.

"The kilt is a badge of honour and should be worn with pride. It shouldn't be lifted to shock people - that's immature and juvenile."

A spokeswoman for tourism body visitscotland said the kilt is an important symbol of Scotland as a "warm and friendly nation".

She added: "It would be a shame if a minority gave Scotland a bad name."

_________________
"our revenge will be the laughter of our children" bobby sands MP

"there is no equality in a society that stands upon the political and economic bog, if only the strongest make it good or survive" bobby sands MP

parkhead_rfb · Getting on a bit! Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974

see this is the kind of "scottishness" that I hate, the tartan army are also very guilty of this.

their sum idea of being scottish is to run around in a tartan skirt, wich really has nothing much to do with scottish history and flash their arses and expect locals to love them for it.

these c***s should be horse whipped.
_________________
"our revenge will be the laughter of our children" bobby sands MP

"there is no equality in a society that stands upon the political and economic bog, if only the strongest make it good or survive" bobby sands MP

Aventinian · Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:09 pm Post subject:

I don't really get the appeal of flashing your arse in some European town centre, but worse things have happened.

What is it with this country and making complete idiots of themselves abroad?
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wisnaeme · Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:45 pm Post subject:

Aventinian · Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 12:54 am Post subject:

Cymro · Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:40 am Post subject:

Funny, I've been out in various places, both in the UK and elsewhere on rugby and football trips and seen idiots flashing their arses. None of them where wearing Kilts.

Pretty nothing of a story "Authorities ask people on drunken trips not to flash their arses".

Just an excuse for another attack on the Tartan Army Parkie?

Are Celtic fans angels on away trips?

Corby Boy · Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 11:49 am Post subject:

Parkhead I can empathise with you on the moronic behaviour of these people and the TA and tourist authorities are right to be concerned as indicated by the article.

I do find your vehement attitude towards kilt wearing and Scottishness etc., a little surprising.

The kilt is associated with Scotland and rightly so. The modern kilt was a C18th invention (so that the great wrap wouldn't get burnt when highlanders worked in a foundry during the industrial revolution) and the modern tartan industry all started with Sir Walter Scott and the visit of the then King George to Scotland in 1822 or thereabouts and followed on by Queen Vic etc...

However, the kilt has been a feature of a huge element of Scottish culture for many centuries before then (e.g. the British empire era).

i.e. that of the highland (gaelic) clans from the Fealdh Mhor - pre-Culloden. Earliest tartans date from the dark ages found in a bog near Falkirk.

So, to infer that kilts/tartan do not have much to do with Scotland/Scottish culture is erroneous. You really should find out a little more about the country you live in before making such judgements.

I do recall also, although granted not many Irish fans don them, that the kilt is also part of Irish culture (as there is of course the commonality here between Irish and Highland Scots culture).

Last time I was in County Kerry for a conference, we were serenaded by an Irish Piper in full kilted regalia. Also, I have known two Irishmen proud to wear the kilt. Please also see the many ads that pop up advertising for Irish tartans on said internet - this site being one of them no less.

Also see St Pat's Day marches in NY, Chicago etc.... Pogues video of Fairytale of NY....

Would you be so quick to condemn these people also, if they started boozing and lifting their kilts and making a holy show of themselves?

Cymro, I also believe the Welsh are joining in on the 'cilt' (as the Welsh call it) wearing club, I have seen the shop in Cardiff and the display of Welsh tartans in the Holiday Inn near the Millenium Stadium.

Cymro · Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 3:13 pm Post subject:

Yes we have seen recent developments with regards to a Welsh Kilt. I actually wore a Welsh National Kilt for my wedding in Scotland over the summer. I wouldn't wear one in an occasion here in Wales, it's not a Welsh dress. As I was having a Scottish wedding in Scotland I opted for it.

I honestly don't see though how this story merrits an attack on a Tartan Army by Parkhead-rfb though. This is just unfortunalty the behaviour of a group of people, who are in to respects representative of 'normal' football fans who tag along for a football or rugby trip purely for the piss up. No more no less.

These same people can be seen doing exactly the same things in towns and cities across the UK on any weekend as well as places like Majorca, Magaluf, Ibiza etc any summer.

As I said, I'm sure even the likes of Celtic have elements who participate in this sort of immature behaviour.

Jimbo · This is Ma' Life! Joined: 18 Feb 2007 Posts: 667

Scots abroad have been doing this for years. A Canon from the diocese of Cambrai commented on the appearance of Scots travelling through Flanders in 1147 on their way to the Crusades. He noted that the Scots wore a covering to the knee closed over at the front and the back but open at the sides 'and it was clearly seen that these people were not wearing drawers'. Geoffrey Barrow describes elements of the Scottish host of 1296 'an effect of nakedness about the lower quarters of the body which had long struck foreign observers with amazement'.

Jimbo · This is Ma' Life! Joined: 18 Feb 2007 Posts: 667

Corby Boy wrote

i.e. that of the highland (gaelic) clans from the Fealdh Mhor - pre-Culloden. Earliest tartans date from the dark ages found in a bog near Falkirk.

It's known as the Falkirk Sett. http://www.clans.org.uk/tartans.html

parkhead_rfb · Getting on a bit! Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974

if an irish person wants to dress up like a leprachaun and run around being an arse then they are a fud, if they do so wearing a kilt they are a fud.

in terms of this particular problem the tartan army are just professionals at this type of fuddery thats why i brought it up. "its ok for me to run about like an extra from rob roy, flashing my arse and annoying people cos am a cheeky chappie from the tartan army".

The idea that a guy kicking about like a fall out from a short bread tin being the best way we can come up with to promote scotland depresses me.

I know the old predictable "ah but the celtic fans/irish..." reply will surface here but thats got nothing to do with this thread. if people want to post articles on those two groups behaving like fuds then we can discuss that. my points about scotland.

Also pretty funny how i am criticised for enjoying irish culture, being interested in its politics etc as i should take more of an interest in scotland then when i comment on a scottish issue people always want to bring it back to ireland.....strange.
_________________
"our revenge will be the laughter of our children" bobby sands MP

"there is no equality in a society that stands upon the political and economic bog, if only the strongest make it good or survive" bobby sands MP

Cymro · Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:03 am Post subject:

No Parkie, you purposly avoid issues again.

I am aware of Welsh fans who travel dressed in Welsh Wife Costumes (which where never really worn here in Waless), I was in Scotland for the rugby and a large number where dressed up as Colliers. Stereotypical images of Wales. And guess what it was all a bit of fun. Adds a bit of humour to an away trip.

Irish people dressed as leprechauns and Scots dressed in Kilts are two different things, but both are about people just having a bit of fun.

Regarding them flashing their arses (and probably other private parts) though you used it as yet another attack on the Tartan Army. So do they all flash their arses do they?

Not having a go at you for showing an interest in Scottish things. You came here posted a message practically tarring all Scottish football fans with the same brush. Not really "showing an interest" is it!

Celtic fans will have fans who behave in just the same way. The difference being you won't be coming on here tarring all Tic fans with the same brush will you!

Enjoy the Scotland vs Georgia match tomorrow. Oh, no sorry you don't care about your own country in football do you Parkie!

Rinty · Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 9:38 am Post subject: g

FFS! This was a story in the Daily Record, rfb made quite reasonable comments that will be heard everywhere. Yet once again his own ethnicity is brought up and he is challenged!

Collective bullying is how I would describe it.

For the record - I think the tartan army are an embarrassment but not Scotland fans in general, like rfb I think the irishness in St Paddys parades etc is also an embarrassment.

If someone was in full highland dress for another reason it wouldnt be comparable with leprechaun suits. BUT, the tartan army's attire of short "dress" kilts, football tops, and caterpillar boots is comparable to jimmy wigs, leprechaun suits etc.

Give him a break folks!

darkside · Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:09 am Post subject:

i wear my kilt at scotland games, historical events etc will that make me a fud? if its does im glad to be a fud
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Rinty · Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:25 am Post subject:

No it doesnt make you a fud, but in general the people rfb is talking about dressing up for football matches and st patricks parades are fuds.

My uncle wears a kilt lots, but he doesnt wear it with the accesories of football top, designer boots and can of stella. He also doesnt pish in folks gardens, lift his kilt or any other fuddish behaviour.

RFB didnt write this story.

parkhead_rfb · Getting on a bit! Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974

no cymro i wont be watching the game and apart from any celtic players playing i wont really give a toss to be honest.

I could always pretend though if it makes you feel better about enforcing your idea that people should automatically feel passionate about a team because of a country i happened to be born in.

I suppose i do like to see england lose mind you.
_________________
"our revenge will be the laughter of our children" bobby sands MP

"there is no equality in a society that stands upon the political and economic bog, if only the strongest make it good or survive" bobby sands MP

kevin04 · I Love 'Our Scotland' Joined: 06 Mar 2007 Posts: 335

I'm going to two weddings in the summer and recently purchased a new kilt and I'll wear it with pride going to these bashes, I agree though that there are some embarrasing cases with the kilt, Flashing your bits in Poland, Belarus or wherever is not on and I don't think people think it's funny, you'd probably get arrested if you did it in Scotland..

We have great support though for our national team and majority of fans are fantastic when they go abroad,

Parkhead, Do you follow Ireland or just have no interest in international football at all? My brother is a celtic fan and he has no interest what's so all about International football, He'll watch a big scotland game but doesn't put him up nor down.

George · This is Ma' Life! Joined: 02 May 2006 Posts: 611

Cymro · Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 12:31 pm Post subject:

Parkie, I'm morbidly curious as to why you refuse to support the Scottish football team being a Scot and all. I would support Wales in flaiming tiddly winks if they where competing in it. You are a football fan who is born and bread in Scotland. I can't for the life of me see why therefore your own country playing football doesn't warrant support?

Is it for political purposes?

I can understand people not supporting Northern Ireland when they are Republican etc.

IF Ireland competed as 1 country in footballing terms as they already do in Rugby Union. Would you be supporting them instead?

Just interested.

And back to the original reason for you posting. George has hit the nail on it's head when he says that flashing your arse - even while wearing a kilt, isn't 'Scottishness'. It's "Drunken people being arses on holiday'. People do that whether supporting Wales, England, Ireland or Scotland or Celtic, Rangers, Liverpool, Everton, or even Cardiff City (not Wrecsam AFC we're far too refined! Cool

). To use this as some sing of Scottishness is just daft.

Aventinian · Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 2:33 pm Post subject: