Our Scotland - www.our-scotland.org

RBK · Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 9:30 pm Post subject: site

This site is not completed yet. But should be interesting when it is.

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http://www.hamiltonmontgomery1606.com/

Rinty · Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 11:12 pm Post subject: o

This was the most succesful influx to ulster and less contentious as the areas they settled in were not highly populated. They were mostly welcomed by the local irish as they brought new energy and prosperity. They also shared a suspicion of the Crown.

Look forward to the site rbk

azzuri · 'Our Scotland' Fossil Joined: 12 Sep 2005 Posts: 3777

aye looks like a good site.
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RBK · Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 12:41 pm Post subject:

It does look good. We'll see how the content is Smile

Whats your opinion about this wee piece. Maybe this shoulda been posted up on another section. But didn't want to get into a whole debate about it.

''But A CURIOUS FEATURE OF MUCH IRISH NATIONALIST and left wing-thinking about Ireland is THAT IT TAKES FOR GRANTED that one form of ethnicity and nationalism...Irishness...is natural and inevitable but makes the competing form of PROTESTANT UNIONISM ACCIDENTAL AND TEMPORARY.
The 'Irish people' is seen as a natural formation WHICH NEEDS NO EXPLANATION AND WHICH AUTOMATICALLY HAS CHARACTERISTICS SUCH AS A 'RIGHT TO SELF-DETERMINATION'. TO STRENGTHEN THAT CASE AND MAKE ULSTER PROTESTANTS DISAPPEAR FROM THE EQUATION,THE COMPETING PROTESTANT ETHNICITY IS DESCRIBED AS MERELY A PRODUCT OF BRITISH IMPERIAL MANIPULATION. A more plausible account would be that ALL ethnic collectivities and ALL nations are social products brought into being by the complex interaction of cultural and material interests and circumstances. NATIONS DO NOT CREATE NATIONALISTS; NATIONALISTS INVENT NATIONS. For many Protestants in Northern Ireland, Ulster Loyalism has displaced the Ulster Britishness which was common prior to the present conflict. As the British goverment has distanced itself,so Ulster Protestants have had to contemplate the possibility of a future on their own, and the result of that comtemplation...HAS NOT BEEN THE ONE DESIRED BY IRISH NATIONALISTS: ....RECOGNIZING THAT THEY ARE REALLY IRISH. INSTEAD PROTESTANTS HAVE COME INCREASINGLY TO SEE THEMSELVES AS ULSTER PEOPLE. Though independence remains the preferred option of only a small minority. IT IS THE SECOND BEST OF ALMOST EVERY UNIONIST.

Rinty · Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 1:01 pm Post subject: j

The author is right, I'd like to see it in a wider context of everything else that was written though.

What I don't think is that modern Irish nationalists have the view that the ulster protestants themselves are not part of their culture or that they are an imperialist imposition. Its more the unionists as a group, and how they have used their majority. The author point to the fact that Britishness was a big part of Ulster identity and is now waning in favour of being an ulster, but it is still a new thing.

The britishness thing has left a huge gap between the radical presbyterians of the early settlements to the new found "realist" history.

I dont see the "irish" community having any objections to the "ulster-scots" ethnic culture and feel if the ulster-scots community were more aware of their own history and could see through the carsonesque version it would be a huge step forward. Likewise if the "irish" community were able to look at their history objectively and accept the population of all parts of Ireland as valid.

RBK · Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 2:55 pm Post subject:

Cheers Rinty...Everybody has their own way of looking at things,thats life. I have always seen/felt different to the Irish people of this island. I respect their right to see themselves as being Irish...not British. I just ask the same courtesy.

Thanks again for the input. I found it interesting.

Rinty · Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 3:27 pm Post subject: h

We are what we are RBK and we come from where we come from. Too often people would rather twist history to suit a current agenda than accept how we arrived at where we did, warts and all.

Many people would rather ignore the political background to the glorious revolution, would rather forget that Cromwell was the republican and the catholics at Drogheda the royalists, forget the united irish men, forget the treatment of presbyterians in Scotland, forget the deliberate discrimination against catholics and instead believe in a glib "theres no solution" or "there just as bad as each other" analysis.