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Celyn
No Longer a Wean
Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 52
Location: Glasgow
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 Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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I'm another one that does not recall any I.R.A. or, indeed, in Scotland. If there were, can evidence of it be found somewhere?
I prefer not to bother much with the complicated situation over there, but at least getting facts straight is worth doing.
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Wolf of Badenoch
'Our Scotland' = 2nd Job!
Joined: 05 Feb 2006
Posts: 526
Location: Scotland
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| Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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I prefer tae keep oot ae all things regarding NI but ive never heard ae ony attacks by the IRA in Scotland,if there had been ye can guarantee it wid hae been reported an plastered ower every front page in the land.
I dae remember politicians in the late 80s saying Scotland couldnae think o itsel as being safe from attacks by IRA bombing campaigns.  Aye richt.
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parkhead_rfb
Getting on a bit!
Joined: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 1974
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| Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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the only military operation that has been carried out by the ira was the smashing of the van where the ira freed members who were being transported from prison to gaol, the brighton bomber was also arrested in a glasgow safe house.
well aventanian i would ask why these policies werent also used against the unionist community to weed out loyalist paramilitaries? the soldiers may only have been carrying out orders but these orders were attacking the nationalist community this made them legitimate targets. The green book claims are also corect and any author on this subect would validate that. I also take question about the british army doing this great work, most people i know who have been on the end of their actions have a different opinion and thats not only republicans.
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Blackleaf
Confirmed TROLL
Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 806
Location: Lancashire
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| Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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At least one of the Irish Republicans who was involved in the 1916 Easter Rising was hanged for treachery after he went to Germany (a country Britain was at war with in that year, remember), published Irish Republican material in a German newspaper or magazine, and then attempted to smuggle weapons into Britain from Germany.
One of the survivors of the Easter Rising, De Valera, went on to become the first President of the Irish Free State. He was notoriously anti-Semitic, supported the Nazis and the deportation of all Jews out of Ireland. He continued to show his admiration for the Nazis just 2 weeks after the British liberated Bergen-Belsen concentration camp.
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Blackleaf
Confirmed TROLL
Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 806
Location: Lancashire
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| Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | they were economic bombs and not intended to harm civillians as some will claim |
Yeah, yeah. That's why the IRA sometimes put bombs in litter bins in the middle of crowded city centres, such as the 1993 bomb in Warrington.
If an IRA bomb ever exploded and killed or maimed any members of your family I wonder if you still would be supportive of them then and say they are "economic" bombs.
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Leathlaobhair
No Longer a Wean
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
Posts: 94
Location: Every day above ground is a good day
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| Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Blackleaf wrote: | | At least one of the Irish Republicans who was involved in the 1916 Easter Rising was hanged for treachery after he went to Germany (a country Britain was at war with in that year, remember), published Irish Republican material in a German newspaper or magazine, and then attempted to smuggle weapons into Britain from Germany. |
So he tried to work with one of the enemy's of the enemy of his country to gain independence. And?
| Blackleaf wrote: | | One of the survivors of the Easter Rising, De Valera, went on to become the first President of the Irish Free State. He was notoriously anti-Semitic, supported the Nazis and the deportation of all Jews out of Ireland. He continued to show his admiration for the Nazis just 2 weeks after the British liberated Bergen-Belsen concentration camp. |
De Valera neither supported the Nazi Party nor did he deport the Jews out of Ireland. You're nuts . If you mean he sent a condolence letter to the German people after Adolf Hitler died and their country was in shambles then yes he did.
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Those must have all been important to me once. What I am now grew from that. A former self is a fool, an insufferable ass, but he's still human, you'd no more turn him out than you'd turn out any kind of cripple, would you?
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stuarty
Finding Ma' Way
Joined: 22 Apr 2006
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 9:49 am Post subject: |
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i had not heard this before, the eire pm sent a letter of condolence after the death of hitler, was this because they supported the anti-semetic regime or becuase they were the enemies gt. britain so essentialy they were comrades in some respects - anyone know?
the anti-semetic aspect is intersting, there does appear to be a problem with this in eire, a couple of years ago eire fans were found to be singing anti-semetic slogans and seig heils at the israeli footbal team when they playing in dublin.
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Blackleaf
Confirmed TROLL
Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 806
Location: Lancashire
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| Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 10:17 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | So he tried to work with one of the enemy's of the enemy of his country to gain independence. And |
So you see nothing wrong with the Irish supporting the Germans in WWI? And you have to remember that Ireland was also at war with Germany in 1916, as it was part nof the United Kingdom - although that didn't bother some Irish Republicans.
What about the Irish supporting the NAZIS in WWII? Was that okay, too?
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Blackleaf
Confirmed TROLL
Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 806
Location: Lancashire
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| Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 10:20 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | De Valera neither supported the Nazi Party nor did he deport the Jews out of Ireland. You're nuts . If you mean he sent a condolence letter to the German people after Adolf Hitler died and their country was in shambles then yes he did.
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Did he not?
Looks like some of these Irish-lovers are blind to the past evils that Ireland committed. Blimey, if it was the English who supported Hitler in WWII the Scots would have been the first to whinge about it. But because it was Ireland, you deny that it ever happened.
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This was written by an American with Northern Irish ancestry -
Friday, December 30, 2005
Irish Republic Mourned the Death of Hitler
It's been known for years--well, actually, now that I think about it--it's been known since 1945: the government of the Irish Republic officially mourned the death of Adolph Hitler.
That's right. You read that right. Remember that the next St. Patrick's Day when some Irish-American gets all weepy about Ireland.
While our allies in Northern Ireland (UK), good Ulstermen, both Protestant and Catholic (like my own grandfather), were volunteering to fight side-by-side with us Americans in WWII, the leaders of "Eire" were officially neutral, hiding behind John Bull and Uncle Sam while biting at both their ankles and secretly rooting for the Germans. Remember that the next time you read that the Irish don't much care for the U.S. Government, our foreign policy or President Bush; nothing new there. Remember that the next time former Irish President Mary Robinson lectures you.
Over the years, good (that is to say, liberal) Irishmen and women have denied that this ever took place. Their story usually is something like: "okay, we were neutral, but it's more complicated than that and, in reality, we actually aided the U.K. and the U.S. by providing intelligence and holding any Germans that we got hold of, but this 'condolences on the death of Hitler' thing is just Unionist propaganda, making a mountain out of a simple diplomatic protocol molehill."
Like most liberal history re-writing, it simply isn't true.
Contemporary reports are beginning to butress the truth of the matter, as illustrated by this report from this morning by the AP:
Irish President Offered Nazis Condolences
By SHAWN POGATCHNIK, Associated Press Writer
Ireland's president during World War II offered condolences to Nazi Germany's representative in Dublin over the death of Adolf Hitler, newly declassified government records show.
Until now, historians had believed that Ireland's prime minister at the time, Eamon de Valera, was the only government leader to convey official condolences to Eduard Hempel, director of the German diplomatic corps in Ireland. De Valera's gesture "unique among leaders of neutral nations in the final weeks of World War II" was criticized worldwide.
The presidential protocol record for 1938-1957, made public this week within a trove of previously secret government documents, shed new light on one of the most embarrassing chapters in the history of independent Ireland - its decision to maintain cordial relations with the Nazis even after news of the Holocaust emerged.
The new document confirmed that President Douglas Hyde visited Hempel on May 3, 1945, a day after Ireland received reports of Hitler's death.
The newly released document says Hyde "who served as Ireland's symbolic head of state from 1938 to 1945 and died in 1949" visited Hempel at the diplomat's home in Dun Laoghaire, a Dublin suburb. It says the president did not send an official letter of condolence to German government headquarters because "the capital of Germany, Berlin, was under siege and no successor had been appointed."
The Republic of Ireland, then called Eire, remained neutral throughout World War II, which in local parlance was called "The Emergency."
Tens of thousands of Irishmen volunteered to serve in British military units, but many others rooted for Germany against their old imperial master Britain. The outlawed Irish Republican Army built contacts with the Nazis in an ultimately fruitless effort to receive weapons and money for insurrection in neighboring Northern Ireland, a British territory.
De Valera's government brutally suppressed the IRA but also rebuffed requests to allow Jews fleeing Nazi persecution to receive asylum in Ireland. De Valera also refused to allow Britain or the United States to use strategic Irish ports for protecting Atlantic convoys from attacks by German U-boat submarines, a policy that cost thousands of Allied seamen's lives.
In his May 1945 victory speech, British Prime Minister Winston Churchill condemned de Valera's neutrality. Churchill said Britain had considered laying "a violent hand" on neutral Ireland to seize its ports, but avoided this thanks to the crucial support of Northern Ireland, which remained part of the United Kingdom when the island was partitioned in 1921.
But de Valera argued that to refuse condolences "would have been an act of unpardonable discourtesy to the German nation and to Dr. Hempel himself. During the whole of the war, Dr. Hempel's conduct was irreproachable. ... I certainly was not going to add to his humiliation in the hour of defeat."
I'm sure it's also news to American "progressives" that the IRA allied itself to the Nazi cause, just as its allied itself to radical Islam today.
Remember all this the next time some smug Irish person lords it all over you as an unwashed American. You might say something like, "Yes, we do have the death penalty in the U.S., but you'll excuse me if I don't take moral lessons from a citizen of a country that regretted the passing of Hitler while mine was fighting tooth and nail for the free Europe you enjoy today and somehow think that you built."
Or something like that.
http://newsisyphus.blogspot.com/2...blic-mourned-death-of-hitler.html
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Blackleaf
Confirmed TROLL
Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 806
Location: Lancashire
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| Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 10:28 am Post subject: |
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And what about this?
One of the survivors of the Easter Uprisings, Eamonn de Valera, who later became Ireland's first President when it broke away from Britain, was hugely anti-Semitic and was a known Nazi supporter.
How the Irish Free State Supported the Nazis and Hated Jews
(from FAIR - Families Acting for Innocent Relatives - the innocents killed by the IRA)
Irish anti-Semitism and love of the Nazis | Quote: | | led to them being rebuffed scornfully by the USA, prevented their qualification for Marshal Aid, and delayed their entrance into the United Nations until 1957. |
The Nazi side of the Irish Republican Movement
Mary McAleese (Irish President)
The recent inflammatory comments made by Presidential hate-monger Mary McAleese has brought to public attention the issue of Nazism and anti-Semitism. As the world stopped to remember the Nazi genocide 60 years on from the Allied liberation of Auschwitz, it is fitting if we remember the allegiances between the citizens and government of what what was the Irish Free State, including their most radical front - Sinn Fein/IRA; and anti-Semitism/National Socialism.
The sectarian and inflammatory comments made by Mary McAleese were as follows: (stated with reference to Nazis)
"They gave to their children an irrational hatred of Jews in the same way that people in Northern Ireland transmitted to their children an irrational hatred of Catholics, in the same way that people give to their children an outrageous and irrational hatred of those who are of different colour and all of those things,"
The implication of which is the Ulster Protestants are as abhorrent as Nazis, while Roman Catholics as victimised as Jewry, and thus Irish Republicanism's bloody struggle murdering thousands of innocent Protestants is perfectly justifiable. To oppose this would therefore be tantamount to supporting Nazism.
These comments were hardly surprising coming from someone whose republican terrorist sympathies have been no great secret. The reality of Irish treatment of Jews and their conduct during World War Two should cause Mrs McAleese to hang her head in shame rather than pontificate to others.
We only have to look back to the first Irish holocaust memorial day on 26th January 2003 when Justice Minister Michael McDowell openly apologized for Irish wartime policy that was inspired by "a culture of muted antisemitism in Ireland," which discouraged immigration by Europe's shattered Jews. He said that "at an official level the Irish state was at best coldly polite and behind closed doors antipathetic, hostile and unfeeling toward the Jews."
Eamon de Valera
Sixty Years ago on the 2nd May 1945 just at the close of World War Two the political leader of the Irish Free State and embodiment of the Irish Republican movement failed even to be discreet in his support for Nazism. Eamon de Valera, the survivor of the 1916 Easter rising (a track record for helping German war efforts), saw fit to sign a petition of condolence at the German legation in Dublin to express his grief on the death of Hitler. Furthermore, he went to personally commiserate with the Nazi representative in Eire, Dr Eduard Hempel on the death of their beloved Fuhrer. Later on the Dublin mob vandalised the British High Commission and the US embassy on news of the Allied victory, both countries being outraged at Ireland's attitude and actions.
Please note this event took place a full three months after the liberation of the Auschwitz-Birkenau concentration camp and the revelation of the full horror of the Nazi genocide, and was only two weeks after British troops had liberated Bergen-Belsen, accompanied as it happened by an Irish doctor. There could be no possibility that de Valera and the Dail were unaware of the Nazi treatment of Jews, and yet the leader of supposedly neutral Ireland still wished to pay his respects to one of the most evil men in the history of the world. It was a display of support that no other national leader on earth made. At the time it was defended as a diplomatic gesture but was one that not even General Franco was insensitive enough to make.
It is clear that de Valera was sympathetic to the Nazi slaughter of Jews, and still willing to be open about it when it was clear that there would be no comeback for Nazi Germany and no united Ireland on the back of an axis victory and the bayonets of the SS. It is interesting to note that de Valera's visit was publicly applauded in the Irish press by Irish republican supporting literary gem, George Bernard Shaw.
Irish Anti-Semitism
This of course was not the only manifestation of Irish sympathy for Nazism which led to them being rebuffed scornfully by the USA, that prevented their qualification for Marshal Aid, and delayed their entrance into the United Nations until 1957. During the War officials of the Irish Free State were outrageous in their racist anti-Semitism which was openly tolerated by the Roman Catholic hierarchy and common currency in Irish society. Indeed Hitler's racial criteria for keeping out the Jew were still being used in Eire 8 years after Hitler's death. A 1953 memo from the Dublin department of Justice argues that vetting refugees into the Republic should be on a similar basis to that 'adopted for the admission of non-Ayran refugees' in 1938 and 1939. The Department of Justice went on to depicte the eastern European Jews applying for asylum as a danger to the Irish State. "There is strong anti-Jewish feeling in this State which is particularly evident to the Alien Section of the Department of Justice." They went on to write 'Sympathy for the Jews has not been particularly excited at the recent news that some thousands are fleeing westwards because of the recent round-up of communist Jews who had been prominent in Government and in government service in eastern European countries.'
When in the Dail in 1943, Oliver J. Flanagan praised Hitler for ridding Germany of Jews claiming, "I doubt very much if they are human!", he was not challenged by any other member. Later in a speech to the Dail he said "There is one thing that Germany did and that was to rout the Jews out of their country. Until we rout the Jews out of this country it does not matter a hair's breadth what orders you make. Where the bees are there is honey, and where the Jews are there is money." Flanagan was soon to join Fine Gael and remained a T.D. for them until 1987 briefly becoming Minister for Defence in the late 1970's. In 2004 Fine Gael leader Enda Kenny T.D. eulogised the memory of the nazi monster on the resignation of his son from politics "Charlie Flanagan continued the long tradition of service given by his late father Oliver J. to the people of Laois/Offaly in exemplary fashion." An exemplary Jew hater indeed! J.J. Walsh T.D. who had been a minister in the Cosgrave government was another high ranking anti-Semite who described Irish Jews as a "gang of parasites".
Anti-Semitism and praise for fascism was also rife within the Roman Catholic hierarchy. The main body organising support for Franco was the Irish Christian Front (I.C.F.) a broad based pressure group which , in the early months of the Spanish civil war organised massive demonstrations and had, initially at least, more widespread support than the Blueshirts. The Front's founders were Patrick Belton, who was formerly a T.D. for both Fianna Fail and Fine Gael as well as being an ex-Blueshirt, and Alexander McCabe, formerly elected for both Sinn Fein (pre-1922) and Cumann Na nGaedheal and later to be a member of Eoin O'Duffy's pro-nazi People's National Party. At one I.C.F. rally in Cork in September 1936 40,000 people assembled to hear Monsignor Patrick Sexton, Roman Catholic Dean of Cork, blame the Spanish civil war on "a gang of murderous Jews in Moscow". Beside him stood Alfred O'Rahilly, the future president of the University College of Cork, and Douglas Hyde, the future president of the Irish state who up until introduction of the Euro has his head on the Irish £50 note.
www.victims.org
So how much further proof do you need?
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Leathlaobhair
No Longer a Wean
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
Posts: 94
Location: Every day above ground is a good day
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| Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Blackleaf wrote: | | Quote: | De Valera neither supported the Nazi Party nor did he deport the Jews out of Ireland. You're nuts . If you mean he sent a condolence letter to the German people after Adolf Hitler died and their country was in shambles then yes he did.
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Did he not?
Looks like some of these Irish-lovers are blind to the past evils that Ireland committed. Blimey, if it was the English who supported Hitler in WWII the Scots would have been the first to whinge about it. But because it was Ireland, you deny that it ever happened. |
Ireland was a neutral country. And why should it have abandoned its neutrality in order to help a country that had systematically oppressed it for centuries and it had been at war with not 20 years before? You're the nutter who thinks that Ireland was deporting Jews to Hitler.
| Blackleaf wrote: |
So you see nothing wrong with the Irish supporting the Germans in WWI? And you have to remember that Ireland was also at war with Germany in 1916, as it was part nof the United Kingdom - although that didn't bother some Irish Republicans.
What about the Irish supporting the NAZIS in WWII? Was that okay, too? |
No. Why should I? If the majority of the Irish nation was under an oppressive and uncaring control of a dying empire then why should they have not worked with a country that could have worked to gain them independence?
As for your second question, was Irishmen working with Nazis to fight security forces in Northern Ireland wrong? Sure. But can I understand what would motivate them to work with their enemy's enemy? Yes.
Oh, and by the way if you want to start rolling out the "war crimes" deal Great Britain definitely has a couple of volumes.
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Those must have all been important to me once. What I am now grew from that. A former self is a fool, an insufferable ass, but he's still human, you'd no more turn him out than you'd turn out any kind of cripple, would you?
-Thomas Pynchon |
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parkhead_rfb
Getting on a bit!
Joined: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 1974
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| Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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i wont even read the article you quoted from fair. anyone with even half a clue about ireland will realise within two seconds that their site is run by half wits they even have pat finucane and rosemary nelson as prominent members of the pira. they also claim that the gaa is used to attack them 
as for ireland collaberating with the nazis well that is nonsense. although de valera is one of the most hated figures within modern day republicanism he was the head of a neutral state and so a letter of condolence would have gone to any other state whos head passed away. you might want to go and look up some noted sources rather than come on and quote the ramblings of half wits.
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"our revenge will be the laughter of our children" bobby sands MP
"there is no equality in a society that stands upon the political and economic bog, if only the strongest make it good or survive" bobby sands MP |
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Leathlaobhair
No Longer a Wean
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
Posts: 94
Location: Every day above ground is a good day
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| Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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| parkhead_rfb wrote: | i wont even read the article you quoted from fair. anyone with even half a clue about ireland will realise within two seconds that their site is run by half wits they even have pat finucane and rosemary nelson as prominent members of the pira. they also claim that the gaa is used to attack them
as for ireland collaberating with the nazis well that is nonsense. although de valera is one of the most hated figures within modern day republicanism he was the head of a neutral state and so a letter of condolence would have gone to any other state whos head passed away. you might want to go and look up some noted sources rather than come on and quote the ramblings of half wits. |
I figured that any article prefixed with a mooning leprechaun or written by FAIR wasn't going to be worth reading as an unbiased viewpoint, yep.
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Those must have all been important to me once. What I am now grew from that. A former self is a fool, an insufferable ass, but he's still human, you'd no more turn him out than you'd turn out any kind of cripple, would you?
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azzuri
'Our Scotland' Fossil
Joined: 12 Sep 2005
Posts: 3777
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| Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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...to be fair it's a pretty ludicrous article from an even more ludicrous and factually inaccurate website.
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