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azzuri
'Our Scotland' Fossil
Joined: 12 Sep 2005
Posts: 3796
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 Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 2:25 pm Post subject: football & bigotry - the beginning of the end?........ |
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50 arrests at at the old firm game on wednesday night, mainly for sectarian offences, someone who was there told me the police waited untill the rangers fans started one of their bile ridden hits then charged in and arrested a random selection of singers.
the police mainly concentrated on the rangers support, as they were easier to contain, but celtic, who released a statement today smugly proclaiming that "only two of the fifty arrested were celtic supporters" should perhaps wait untill after their next visit to ibrox before
taking the moral high ground as the police intend to employ the same tactics against the away celtic support there.
hopefully these new tactics will extend to football grounds all over scotland, and finally begin the end of this vile behaviour.
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trueblue
3 Strikes - Banned!
Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 260
Location: caravan
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 2:34 pm Post subject: Re: football & bigotry - the beginning of the end?...... |
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| rs_azzuri wrote: | -
50 arrests at at the old firm game on wednesday night, mainly for sectarian offences, someone who was there told me the police waited untill the rangers fans started one of their bile ridden hits then charged in and arrested a random selection of singers.
the police mainly concentrated on the rangers support, as they were easier to contain, but celtic, who released a statement today smugly proclaiming that "only two of the fifty arrested were celtic supporters" should perhaps wait untill after their next visit to ibrox before
taking the moral high ground as the police intend to employ the same tactics against the away celtic support there.
hopefully these new tactics will extend to football grounds all over scotland, and finally begin the end of this vile behaviour. |
the policy does seem to be that away fans are targetted at away grounds. at the last old frim game at ibrox the majority of arrests for secterian offences were celtic fans. i think this is right. the vast majority of home fans have no interest in this stuff. but when celtic or rangers are way the ftp and ftq mob are out in force. being a kilmarnock fan you probably witnesed the self styled 'greatest fans in the world' at their best over the last couple of years. particularly the day rangers won the leauge when celtic beat killie at rugby park, i think they are called 'lighter and coin throwers faithful'. wee dig eh?
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parkhead_rfb
Getting on a bit!
Joined: 13 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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any charge related to sectarian offences with the celtic support will be thrown out of court as the people arrested for these songs will infact be signing republican songs. many bars have already challenged rulings against them this and so far all have won.
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SLG
Born Again..........and still Scottish!
Joined: 16 Sep 2005
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Location: Dùn Eideann
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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| parkhead_rfb wrote: | | any charge related to sectarian offences with the celtic support will be thrown out of court as the people arrested for these songs will infact be signing republican songs. many bars have already challenged rulings against them this and so far all have won. |
Are these people being charges based just on singing? Have no Celtic fans ever been convicted of sectarian (or related) offences in the past? |
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parkhead_rfb
Getting on a bit!
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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my point is that you will find that the police will try and clamp down on republican songs and term them sectarian which is of course incorrect, i have no problem with anyone being arrested were they to be shouting racist or actual sectarian abuse.
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"there is no equality in a society that stands upon the political and economic bog, if only the strongest make it good or survive" bobby sands MP |
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azzuri
'Our Scotland' Fossil
Joined: 12 Sep 2005
Posts: 3796
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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| parkhead_rfb wrote: | | my point is that you will find that the police will try and clamp down on republican songs and term them sectarian which is of course incorrect, i have no problem with anyone being arrested were they to be shouting racist or actual sectarian abuse. |
so, what's your point caller? 
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trueblue
3 Strikes - Banned!
Joined: 31 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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| parkhead_rfb wrote: | | any charge related to sectarian offences with the celtic support will be thrown out of court as the people arrested for these songs will infact be signing republican songs. many bars have already challenged rulings against them this and so far all have won. |
this true. there have been cases when someone charged with singing the sash has been thrown out as it was found to be non-secterian and considered a 'folk song'.
which is nonsense cos when the rangers fans sing the ftp/ sash/derry's walls etc we all know who they are having a go at. and when the celtic fans sings soldier song/ftq/fields/no protestants we all know who they are having a go at.
parkhead, i think it is unwise to try and defend the secterian singing of celtic fans. i will never defend such from rangers fans. all decent minded fans have no time for it.
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parkhead_rfb
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| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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songs about no protestants? i certainly havent heard those. the only similar thing i can think of is when a small minority of morons, and they are total morons, sing north men south men comrades all and add in soon there will be no protestants at all which is clearly totally opposite to what the song actually means. Every club has arseholes the thing i object to is republican songs being classed as sectarian when they are not.
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khraeigh
No Longer a Wean
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Posts: 69
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| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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| parkhead_rfb wrote: | | songs about no protestants? i certainly havent heard those. the only similar thing i can think of is when a small minority of morons, and they are total morons, sing north men south men comrades all and add in soon there will be no protestants at all which is clearly totally opposite to what the song actually means. Every club has arseholes the thing i object to is republican songs being classed as sectarian when they are not. |
I wouldn't say Republican songs are sectarian, neither are "Loyalist" songs.
However the context in which they are sung can make the undertones sectarian.
What I object to is the morons at Parkhead who deem it appropriate to sing songs about (thus glorifying) the IRA.
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trueblue
3 Strikes - Banned!
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| Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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| parkhead_rfb wrote: | | songs about no protestants? i certainly havent heard those. the only similar thing i can think of is when a small minority of morons, and they are total morons, sing north men south men comrades all and add in soon there will be no protestants at all which is clearly totally opposite to what the song actually means. Every club has arseholes the thing i object to is republican songs being classed as sectarian when they are not. |
the away fans love this song with particular emphasis on 'no protestants'.
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trueblue
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| Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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| khraeigh wrote: | | parkhead_rfb wrote: | | songs about no protestants? i certainly havent heard those. the only similar thing i can think of is when a small minority of morons, and they are total morons, sing north men south men comrades all and add in soon there will be no protestants at all which is clearly totally opposite to what the song actually means. Every club has arseholes the thing i object to is republican songs being classed as sectarian when they are not. |
I wouldn't say Republican songs are sectarian, neither are "Loyalist" songs.
However the context in which they are sung can make the undertones sectarian.
What I object to is the morons at Parkhead who deem it appropriate to sing songs about (thus glorifying) the IRA. |
also true. as individual songs in context their is nothing wrong with loyalist and republican songs.
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RBK
I Love 'Our Scotland'
Joined: 03 Oct 2005
Posts: 260
Location: Ulster
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| Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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The words are changed to make them worse than what they are,and I didn't know that about some Celtic 'supporters' and North men South men
changing the words. If you look at most Orange songs[not all] there is no bigotry in them. |
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Abieuan
'Our Scotland' = 2nd Job!
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Posts: 482
Location: Carrick
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| Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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We can all agree that if one Scottish team does well in Europe that it benifits all the rest.
I, if Kil****** were playing in Europe, would be wanting them to win.
Rangers play Porto midweek, it would be beneficial to all Scottish teams if they were to win, but some Celtic fans will hope they lose.
I think this is a test of bigotry, do you support the greater good of Scottish football or sectarian allegiance.
Ayr, Ayr super Ayr, super Ayr United ! |
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Rinty
Ready For Afterlife!
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 2598
Location: SW Scotland
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| Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2005 1:14 am Post subject: w |
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I am a Celtic fan, I hope Rangers lose to Porto.
I'm not a bigot, I am a selfish and biased football supporter. The more misery for the team that are our closest rivals in almost every trophy we compete for, the better for my team.
I love to see Rangers lose and I love to see England lose. For a few days last week i failed Tebbits cricket test miserably by supporting Pakistans cricket team against England.
If this is a test of me being a bigot then its not a strong test as I have failed yet I am not a bigot.
For the record, I like to see other Scottish teams do well in Europe but not Rangers, and I support any nation against England in any sport! Sorry. |
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SLG
Born Again..........and still Scottish!
Joined: 16 Sep 2005
Posts: 5515
Location: Dùn Eideann
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| Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2005 10:26 am Post subject: Re: w |
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I agree with Rinty. Football is a sectarian sport where-ever you go. Folk support one team and generally dislike everything about the other teams for no reason other than it's not their team. Especially local rivals. Most (or at least a lot of) Hibs fans won't support Hearts in Europe. A few folk take a more enlightened attitude. Personally I'd like all the Scottish clubs (even Hearts) to do well in Europe, but even though I want to, I really struggle when it comes to supporting Rangers and Celtic.
I just can't bring myself to support Rangers as soon as I see the fans with all their Union and Ulster Flags, the Rule Britannia and GSTQ never mind some of the other songs... I just want to see them knocked out ASAP.
I don't have so much of a problems with Celtic, but Rinty, do you think most Celtic fans think of Celtic as a Scottish club, or an Irish club? There was a poll on the main hibs forum a few weeks back - do you think Hibs are a Scottish (with Irish heritage), British (with Irish heritage) or an Irish club (that happen to play in Scotland). The vast majority said Scots (IIRC ~85%), but about 10% said Irish (the rest were Hearts fans on the wind up). I'd imagine for Celtic that would be much higher proportion that see Celtic as an Irish club that just happen to play in Glasgow. |
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