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SLG · Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 4:42 pm Post subject: Vote SNP for Independence

Scottish National Party leader Alex Salmond today unveiled a 28-page document, setting out his hopes for victory in the 2007 Scottish Parliament election followed by a referendum to quit the UK. The paper, Raising the Standard, coincides with the launch of the Independence Convention on St Andrew's Day, and includes the question to be put to every resident in Scotland if the SNP wins the largest number of seats at Holyrood in 17 months time.

I've not had a chance to read the document properly yet, but it's looks good, and seems to begin to spell out a lot of the logistical issues regarding independence.

Most importantly, they will - in the first term of an SNP administration - offer the people of Scotland a referendum with the question:

carol · Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 7:51 am Post subject:

Personally I don't think Mr Salmond should be using the convention as an SNP platform.

Carol

Rinty · Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 9:14 am Post subject: yes

I totally agree Carol. The one thing that the convention can change in Scottish politics without winning votes or seats in parliament is the attitude that the SNP is the only show in town. Fifty years of that scenario has not led to Independence and in recent years the SNP vote has gone down in election after election while votes for independence have increased. The convention should, in my opinion, be about finding the way to work round the massive differences between the parties who support independence to build a movement that can actually deliver independence.

Salmond is quite right to say what he said, but chose the wrong setting to launch a rallying cry to party supporters. The SNP have to stop thinking of themselves as THE national party and realise that are now other Scottish parties with significant support.

SLG,
I think your opening remark highlights how SNP supporters are stuck in this mindset.

SLG · Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:11 am Post subject:

Your point Rinty is correct. Those were not my words, but taken from a press release. But the SNP are not stupid and realise fine well that they just need to get a majority of pro-indy parties to get a referendum.

Although I support the SNP, I do so out of convenience nothing else. I support Independence. I support all the pro-Independence parties and the Independence convention. The level to which I support the different organisations is based on how much I think they will progress the cause of Independence.

I don't know enough about the workings of the IC at the moment, but Salmond said that this is an SNP consultation document. The other parties within the IC will be producing their own material. I would be very surprised if this has been done in isolation. We'll find out more Wednesday.

If the SNP wanted to sell themselves as the only show in town, then they wouldn't be joining the IC in the first place. There is a fine line between going into a formal coalition and the cooperation I expect the IC to engender. At the end of the day, the SNP is all about Independence, if they allow that to be totally controlled by the IC, then they cease to be an independence party - the SNP will always talk about independence more than their fellow IC parties. I think we really need to wait until Wednesday to get a better idea of how the IC will pan out.

carol · Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:31 pm Post subject:

The Interim Forum for an Independence Convention (IFIC) is in place just now. The convention itself will not have it's inaugural meeting until spring, the date will be announced tomorrow.

The IFIC will be in existence until it hands over the 'role' to the convention.

The consultation period for the Raising the Standard blueprint is the end of January 06.

If the document had been drawn up in consultation with other pro independence parties it would've come through the IFIC channels, it hasn't.

The consultation period doesn't give the document time to even reach the convention table, and until the inaugural meeting in the spring you won't even know who is going to be sitting around it.

Again the SNP should not be using the 'launch' tomorrow night as a platform for their own agenda, here's hoping it doesn't backfire on the convention, no one party should be taking centre stage. One can only guess who the first speaker will be.............

Carol

SLG · Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:51 pm Post subject:

carol · Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 3:45 pm Post subject:

IFIC is apolitical SLG it shouldn't be who has the biggest party. I'd like to think there has been cooperation on this one and at least hope the SSP and the Greens knew about the document before it launched on Monday.

Carol

SLG · Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 4:51 pm Post subject:

I'm sure we'll find out more as time goes on. As for IFIC being a political, sure, but at the end of the day AFAIK, IFIC is formed by organisations, rather than the individuals of those organisations. So the SNP being the largest of the political parties involved will have a very prominant role. All the parties need to have a prominant role if the IC is to have an effect on the vote in 2007.

carol · Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 12:22 am Post subject:

SLG you'd need to attend the IFIC meetings to know the makeup.

At present IFIC meetings are dominated by SNP members, hopefully that will change after the public meeting this evening, those from civic scotland etc will be encouraged to attend.

Maybe see you tonight.

Not that i know what you look like Rolling Eyes

Carol

Rinty · Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 8:05 am Post subject: p

Way back when the IC was first mooted Alan McCombes was one of the main movers and the SNP mainstream were cynical to say the least. At the fringe meeting at the SNP conference in 2004 that launched the idea, it was clear that the SNP leadership was not interested at the time.

Since then it seems to be dominated by the SNP and Salmonds speech has sparked fears, in my opinion, that the SNP leadership see the IC as a way a tacking the smaller pro-independence parties votes on to theirs, instead of building a genuine independence movement.

Speaking as an SSP member, the relationship between the SSP and SNP is at an all time low. The SNPs decision to unanimously support the over-the-top sanctions imposed on the SSP in September has left most numb to the idea of working with any of the SNPs MSPs.

The rumours that the SNP will not back Tommy Sheridans council tax bill are worrying me. If it turns out to be true this will be just another in a long line of anti-SSP political opportunism by the SNP and would leave relations between the parties dead in the water.

It's difficult enough to persuade SSP members that we should be working with a party who believe in an independent capitalist monarchy without any more animosity. When all of the SNP MSPs voted to withhold wages from our party workers and MSPs staff for one month, and voted for a one month ban for a 20 minute protest I thought the IC was dead as far as the SSP was concerned. I support those in the party who have kept involved but I really do think it is in the balance now.

This speech by Salmond will disappoint many in the SSP. The Greens debate on working in a coalition at their conference only talked about a coalition in terms of The Lib Dems and Labour and never even mentioned the SNP or SSP. I wonder where it is all going.

What made Salmond and the leadership come round to the idea of the IC?

carol · Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 10:19 am Post subject:

I don't know the whys regards the SNP. Glory seeking maybe 'saving' the day, everything seemed to be ticking over until this blueprint launch. It's put a damper on what the convention is all about. I don't even know if the SSP or Greens were aware of this blueprint beforehand, it never came through an IFIC meeting. It doesn't matter who has the largest membership they should all be pulling together.

I'm not against the document in principle he could've used another moment to rally the troops, believe me they need a morale booster, moreso in this area.

We can only see what tonight brings, I hope it goes ok.

Carol