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azzuri
'Our Scotland' Fossil
Joined: 12 Sep 2005
Posts: 3776
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 Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 3:33 pm Post subject: Scots figures on spending are 'flawed'.............. |
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see - http://news.scotsman.com/politics.cfm?id=14302006
SCOTTISH Nationalists today claimed figures published by the Government had distorted the level of public spending in Scotland.
SNP Treasury spokesman Stewart Hosie released a series of parliamentary answers, which he claimed showed money which had actually been spent in England was included in calculations for UK spending in Scotland, boosting the figures artificially.
He said the cash included spending of £120 million on English tourism promotion and inward investment.
He said: "The Treasury has confirmed that spending that cannot be broken down by English region is classified as non-identifiable and allocated to the UK, while the same programmes are classed as identifiable in Scotland.
"This means that when 'spending per head' calculations are made, Scots are being charged for Scottish and English spending."
He said the revelation undermined the credibility of government claims about spending per head in different parts of the UK.
He added: "The whole system is flawed. This is a ridiculous way of doing things. As much as £5 billion of English spending could have been wrongly identified, including £2bn for the English prison service and areas such as economic development, the environment and general public services."
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"Every single person on this planet is unique. Just like everyone else..." - Random Guy in Edinburgh Pub
Possibly the funniest site in the world, 'The Daily Mash' - http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/ |
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Aventinian
'Our Scotland' Fossil
Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 4256
Location: Broadcasting From An Anonymous Location Within the United Kingdom.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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I wonder how much went the other way, yet their politics prevent them from mentioning...
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'Socialists cry "Power to the people", and raise the clenched fist as they say it. We all know what they really mean—power over people, power to the State.' |
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Shadowman
No Longer a Wean
Joined: 02 Jan 2006
Posts: 94
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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| £120 million? Even for Scotland that's not a lot of money... |
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azzuri
'Our Scotland' Fossil
Joined: 12 Sep 2005
Posts: 3776
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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it's an example of the information that has been released due to the 'freedom of information' act.
I realise £120 Million isn't a lot, but it's just 1 example in a long line of many I'm sure.
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"Every single person on this planet is unique. Just like everyone else..." - Random Guy in Edinburgh Pub
Possibly the funniest site in the world, 'The Daily Mash' - http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/ |
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Shadowman
No Longer a Wean
Joined: 02 Jan 2006
Posts: 94
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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| rs_azzuri wrote: | it's an example of the information that has been released due to the 'freedom of information' act.
I realise £120 Million isn't a lot, but it's just 1 example in a long line of many I'm sure. |
Unless the figure runs into the billions, it's hardly worth mentioning. Surley if there was a bigger number available to quote, the SNP would have quoted that! (after all, we all know that they are the most opportunisitic party in British politics). |
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Shagpile
No Longer a Wean
Joined: 03 Jan 2006
Posts: 79
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Aventinian wrote: | | I wonder how much went the other way, yet their politics prevent them from mentioning... |
Your point?
Empty just like your rhetoric! |
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Rinty
Ready For Afterlife!
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 2560
Location: SW Scotland
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 7:56 pm Post subject: n |
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| Quote: | | SNP would have quoted that! (after all, we all know that they are the most opportunisitic party in British politics). |
Now I'm no fan of the SNP but I feel I have to defend them against that claim. The Lib Dems in Holyrood campaign against council tax and GM crops in elections while supporting them in parliament. The Labour party changed completely to the party of opinion polls and tabloid headlines rather than conference decisions of the members.
The SNP are no doubt opportunistic as are most parties but they cannot beat the Lib Dems for sheer and utter hypocrisy and opportunism. |
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azzuri
'Our Scotland' Fossil
Joined: 12 Sep 2005
Posts: 3776
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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I have to agree with that Rinty.
The LIBERAL democrats managed to backstab the leader who led them to the best election results in over 70 years because he admitted to being an alcoholic (though is getting treatment now). How LIBERAL is that?
The Lib Dems will get what they deserve - a crap new leader who will split the party and spell it's demise.
They're the 'Real Alternative' alright!
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"Every single person on this planet is unique. Just like everyone else..." - Random Guy in Edinburgh Pub
Possibly the funniest site in the world, 'The Daily Mash' - http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/ |
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SLG
Born Again..........and still Scottish!
Joined: 16 Sep 2005
Posts: 5515
Location: Dùn Eideann
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Shadowman wrote: | | Unless the figure runs into the billions, it's hardly worth mentioning. Surley if there was a bigger number available to quote, the SNP would have quoted that! (after all, we all know that they are the most opportunisitic party in British politics). |
Of course it's worth mentioning no matter the scale. The government are not transparent about monies raised and about expenditure. That is why there is the endless debate. It could be solved if the government wanted to. They lose any credibility they had when they publish figure that they know include English expenditure. |
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Maol.Chaluim
'Our Scotland' = 2nd Job!
Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 418
Location: Glaschu
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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| There is an amount of something like 6 or 8 BILLION pounds in GERS that are unidentified "extras" included in the spending figures for Scotland, which mysteriously (and rather conveniently) brings the total spent over the total raised. The whole thing is designed to make it look like Scotland is "subsidised". |
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Aventinian
'Our Scotland' Fossil
Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 4256
Location: Broadcasting From An Anonymous Location Within the United Kingdom.
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| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 1:30 am Post subject: |
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| Shagpile wrote: | | Aventinian wrote: | | I wonder how much went the other way, yet their politics prevent them from mentioning... |
Your point?
Empty just like your rhetoric! |
Mu, my, you are a witty little fellow, aren't you? |
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wallacesclaymore
No Longer a Wean
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 94
Location: Edinburgh
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:23 am Post subject: |
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| Aventinian wrote: | | Shagpile wrote: | | Aventinian wrote: | | I wonder how much went the other way, yet their politics prevent them from mentioning... |
Your point?
Empty just like your rhetoric! |
Mu, my, you are a witty little fellow, aren't you? |
Ah, Aventinian...on the windup again I see.
You know, I dont know WHY you bother to post on this forum. Far be it for ME to say what you do but please, do, explain exactly what brings you back time and time again - is it for the reasoned debate you offer?? Is it for the genuine interest in discussion?? Or, is it simply to PISS as many people off and offend as many total strangers as you possibly can??
I quote from you....
"So this is where the new loonies on the Scotland.com forum have been coming from.... "
Nice introduction from yourself and a nice, clear, bold statement as to your thoughts on the people who post here....or just those who DISAGREE with YOUR views??
Or, perhaps when another member of the forum offered his view on the question about SCOTLAND being closer to Independence your rhetoric was
"Being 22, I don't think you're really in the best position to judge.
No offence intended or anything..."
Again, a well constructed response. Evidently the voting age of 18 means nothing when YOU have clearly deceided those under / on / around the age of 22 arent eligible to hold an opinion....
"I wouldn't say Scots is a language in its own right and therefore one cannot really be asked if he speaks it distinctly from English.
I've seen English people managing to, quite easily, translate and understand Scots. If it was indeed a separate language, this would not be true. While I am no linguist by profession, this is what sets 'language' and 'dialect' appart for me."
I love your logic, I really do. I can understand and translate a good deal of Italian/Latin and French. I am no linguist but I can (especially Italian) make a good effort in such translations...does that make Italian any less of a language to you??? Perhaps the Italians should all speak another language since I can translate it with (relative) ease...
"Like what you want, mate. No body should force a culture on you just because it is 'Scottish' - you can pick and choose.
Personally, I like Highland Cathedral as much as Belle & Sebastian and whisky as much as Irn-Bru, but you certainly don't have to embrace any aspects of culture you don't want to. It cheapens the whole thing."
Correct...I agree with you to a point. And I would suggest NOBODY should make me embrace queen elizabeth, the "national" anthem which is racist and offensive to SCOTLAND and everything else I hold no affinity or respect for over my OWN country. NOTE: I would not DISRESPECT such things if they were not forced on me, and ESPECIALLY when they are forced on me over my OWN country, traditions. It is worth noting the "National Anthem" is god save the queen. To me, this is a charade. It's not MY national anthem....I am Scottish, first, last and forever more. I am not, whether legally and technically incorrect, british nor do I see myself as such. Like it or not - you cannot have it BOTH ways. In the same way you dont want Irn-Bru, whisky and anything else rammed down your throat, WE dont want the s***e that comes with being "british" over being Scottish. So, if you can see it from your own end, you MUST see it from the NATIONALIST end.....or, you choose not too, most likely.
"Illegal by whose law? National law or, say, Natural Law. Because there is a broad different in what I'd allow. Fundamentally, I don't believe the majority has the right to impose any sort of force upon me. As an example, I don't pay for the TV Licence in the UK, which is technically illegal. However, there is also the delightful fact that I can exercise my freedom not to allow those officers of the state that occasionally come calling to 'inspect my home' for television equipment to enter.
Wonder what your take is on all the "working" class people who you clearly regard as "lower" than yourself not paying their TV licence. For that matter, its PEOPLE LIKE ME, AND OTHERS ON HERE THAT SUBSIDISE THE LIKES OF YOU WATCHING FREE TV.
WHAT GIVES YOU the right to free TV when WE all pay???? Is it your (obvious ability) to pay or are you some kind of pretend rebel without a cause (or a clue) not paying??? You cite your right to "not allow...to enter" - I will tell you this, if I were in full knowledge of where you lived and who you were, I would happily inform said people and refer them to your smart arsed post on the matter. A very out of character thing for me to do since I do not "grass", "shop" or "clipe" others....but for yourself, you can bet on it....SCROUNGERS are the lowest in society and supposed "middle-class" scroungers who COULD pay the licence piss me off even more.
"Then again, you'd be surprised the amount of independence that large steel gates and a high wall can afford you. With the cut in size and military hardware, I actually imagine I could hold out against any Scottish force for quite some time in here"
You are deluded.....sincerely....still, your hard .... as you dont pay the TV licence 
"Well, for all of that article that wasn't complete sensationalism and nonsense, he actually raises many good points. I certainly understand his frustrations with this place."
So, the article is "sensationalist" and "nonsense" YET.... "he raises many good points" ??? Hmmm.... and of course you "certainly understand his frustratiosn with this place"...OK, well, logic in there somewhere maybe Mr Spok could understand but Aventinian, Im faked if I can find it...still, (Frank Carson voice) there's more..there's more...
"Perhaps instead of throwing your toys out of the pram and proving his point about the 'Scottish swagger', you'd do well to acutally face up to those harsh realities that he mentions. "
"harsh realities" already labelled by yourself as "sensationalist" and "nonsense"....BRILLIANT .... there is little point in ripping the piss out of you when you do a fine job of it yourself
"Ne’er before have I witnessed a group of people who rely more upon collective wishful thinking than the Scots nationalists…"
Then may I please be as bold as to enquire WHAT THE f**k YOU HANG AROUND FOR (Admins, excuse my profanity here). At the end of the day, this illustrates your REAL views. You are here for one reason and one reaosn only....to WIND people up and PISS them off.
"Personally, I feel a greater affinity with my village and county than I ever will with Scotland – I don’t believe that would ever preclude me from a life in politics."
Another dig, windup, whatever, yeah yeah yeah yeah.... 
"Regardless of what you say, we still get higher public service spending per capita than any other economic zone in the UK. If anyone is getting an unfair slice of the pie it is us. "
"Many of these things, presented as 'Unionist' arguments would not be argued by anyone with half a mind, never mind anyone who had a decent grounding in politics or economics. "
A reply to me...another thoughtful, well constructed and reasoned argument...I particularly like the resorting to abuse and your pre-requisite that anyone who debates on these "nationalist" or "unionist" matters somehow requires a grounding in politics or economics  !!
.... and so on, so forth...blah blah blah...yeah yeah yeah
So, if I may, allow me to sum up:
You DONT believe in Nationalisim
You are not necessarily a Unionist
You dont pay the TV licence
You wouldnt let anyone enter your property to check if you are using the TV
You think its amusing to belittle the binge drinking problem
You think the folks on here are "the new loonies on the Scotland.com forum have been coming from"
You reckon your big wall and solid fence would save you from the nasty Scottish rebels who will take over the country and invade YOUR home
There is no point in democracy
Scotland's a s***e place to live...
And your party piece which sums up nicely your inability to LISTEN, RESPOND and offer any common courtesey to others who disagree with you:
"I'm not much of a supporter of democracy and social justice. Dictatorship of the majority in my opinion. I'm a Libertarian"
Says it all....
Why dont you go and find another pastime to fill your evenings....clearly your superior knowledge and your being a higher being is suited elsewhere....we are NOT worthy! Whilst you're at it, why not move....with "SCOTSMEN" like you, we dont need ANY enemies, anyone to stop us achieving our goals and ideals and certainly dont need anyone to rip the piss out Scotland, the country WE (and NOT the royal we....as in "WE" - the rest of the nation other than your goodself) love and you seem to put up with as you cant really be arsed doing much about it.
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SNP x 3 .... 3rd May 2007 |
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Aventinian
'Our Scotland' Fossil
Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 4256
Location: Broadcasting From An Anonymous Location Within the United Kingdom.
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:40 am Post subject: |
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My, you've taken ad hominem to a whole new level. Hope that took you a lot of time there, quoting out of context and so forth. I remain steadfast and supportive of everything I've said on this forum and while most people don't agree with me, they can at least accept that I hold a reasonable position on most matters.
You know, maybe if you listened a bit more than just talking you'd actually realise that other people actually have more logical views than your own. As for improving the nation, it's not people like me that are the problem - it's people like you. |
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wallacesclaymore
No Longer a Wean
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 94
Location: Edinburgh
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:24 am Post subject: |
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"Out of context"...I could've replied to all your 119 posts but thought I'd just take a summary of your finest moments so far....
I dont doubt you remain steadfast and supportive of "all you support". I wouldnt mind you supporting ANYTHING if you werent such an arse about the way others hold a different view ... after all, there are OTHER people on here who support the union, that DONT vote SNP etc yet they dont seem to receive the same attention you do.....perhaps its just YOUR confrontational manner....
"listened a bit more" - maybe if you wrote something worth listening too I'd listen more. I actually like a good debate. When somebody puts up a different point from you, rather than debate, you resort to name calling and "its ma baw - agree or am gon hame" type crap.
Of course, I should have known people like "me" are the problem and YOU are of course standing tall and correct, as per usual.
GET A LIFE.....
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SNP x 3 .... 3rd May 2007 |
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Aventinian
'Our Scotland' Fossil
Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 4256
Location: Broadcasting From An Anonymous Location Within the United Kingdom.
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 9:21 am Post subject: |
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| wallacesclaymore wrote: | | I dont doubt you remain steadfast and supportive of "all you support". I wouldnt mind you supporting ANYTHING if you werent such an arse about the way others hold a different view ... after all, there are OTHER people on here who support the union, that DONT vote SNP etc yet they dont seem to receive the same attention you do.....perhaps its just YOUR confrontational manner.... |
"Hello, Kettle... there's Pot on the phone and he's sounding irate"
I haven't launched personal attacks on anyone. You're in the process of doing so. I'd like to ask the moderator to step in here and I won't be continuing this discussion which is quite simply immature name calling. If you want some personal advice: grow up. |
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azzuri
'Our Scotland' Fossil
Joined: 12 Sep 2005
Posts: 3776
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 11:35 am Post subject: |
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I can see where you might have a problem with wallacesclaymores post Aventinian - although having read through it clearly, there are no threats there or any blatant name calling as such.
It is certainly a confrontational post and I'd urge you to calm it down a bit wallacesclaymore. Aventinian - he seems to question your motives and your opinions - which is perfectly acceptable .
I would say though that Aventinian does at least come on here and try and have reasoned debate. Whether his opinions are right, wrong or otherwise it is up to us to respect those opinions and his posts as long as they don't break the forum rules.
This does not mean you are not allowed to question what he says, just that I don't think it's fair to 'have a go' in such an agressive way at every opinion of his just because of his political persuasion. Being patronising to someone is not breaking the rules either, though it hardly shows you up in a good light.
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"Every single person on this planet is unique. Just like everyone else..." - Random Guy in Edinburgh Pub
Possibly the funniest site in the world, 'The Daily Mash' - http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/ |
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