Our Scotland - www.our-scotland.org

Cymro

This link was posted on a Welsh language message board (www.maes-e.com) that I visit about the Gaelic language.

Very interesting, but in typical Times method quite one sided. I don't need to say on which side to I?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2091-2416393_1,00.html

Highlander · I Love 'Our Scotland' Joined: 09 Apr 2006 Posts: 298

It was a very good read. The sad thing is, gaelic is being forced upon the Scottish population. I would have no problem with Gaelic if the politicians also forced, middle english, old english, lallans, old norse and some brythonic languages on us as well and so I could see sign posts in all these languages. But instead they decide that Gaelic (A VERY SMALL PART OF OUR HERITAGE) must be nationalised and forced in every area of our country even if it was only spoken there for a short time in the history of languages here. It is utter discimination on a large scale.
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Cymro · Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 3:50 pm Post subject:

The argument about whether it should be 'forced' into all of Scotland is one thing. But the article (while being a good read) does paint the whole thing in a negative way and that those camapigning for the language are some awkward, annoying little people just making a nuisance of themselves.

The language is 1 element of Scotlands heritage, but that doesn't make it unimportant. Loosing the language will be a sad thing and everything must be done now to ensure that doesn't happen. Areas with Gaelic speakers, however small must take steps to not only preserve the language but promote the language. One of those ways is to ensure by say 2010 all road signs in those areas, and all other public signs are fully bilingual.

Public bodies must offer services in Gaelic, as it should be considered a basic right. Thats not to say that Doric in the North East and Scots shouldn't also get that right.

I can see why the Gaelic lobby groups and the Scots lobby groups don't see eye to eye but more links them than seperates them and imagine what could be achieved if they co-operated?

The article makes a mistake in drawing an image of the situation in Wales being a lot easier because the Welsh had no challenges. This simply isn't true. The Anti Welsh langauge groups (backed by Labour who have a negative attitude towards minority languages in the UK) tried to say areas like Wrexham, Flintshire, Monmouth, South Pembroke etc didn't have enough Welsh speakers and the language was English so should therefore be kept out of any legislation.

They lost.

garye · Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:12 pm Post subject:

Highlander · I Love 'Our Scotland' Joined: 09 Apr 2006 Posts: 298

Cymro · Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 10:58 am Post subject:

Come now Highlander, stop hiding behind semantics. Do you not accept that the Gaelic language Bill was passed with clear political will be all parties? We live in a representative democracy and all those MSP's represent the people of Scotland, they descided it was beneficial to them to pass the language bill. That is not forced is it? And that is completely different to what Scotland saw with the Act of Union. I suspect you realised that, but that won't stop a person from trying will it?

We aren't bothered about your address so don't worry. But, as someone living in the Highlands your area (wherever that may be) has seen a massive decline in the Gaelic language. I was watching a programme a few weeks ago on BBC 2 Scotland about the Sutherland dialect of Gaelic. Fascinating programme, but very sad, one thing is to ressurect a language (which is quite easy) another thing is to ressurect a dialect (it's practically impossible). This particular form of the language was now only spoken by a few individuals (one was an American). The language was dying and along with it a part of that particular areas culture.

It is imperative that the language is allowed to not only survive but to become a past of community life once again. Otherwise everyone will be at a loss.

Grachka · On A Journey (500 Miles) Joined: 24 Oct 2006 Posts: 37

As good a topic as any to post my first post. Smile

Whilst I agree with the aims of the law, and the sentiment behind it, the strategy seems to be flawed. History shows that threatened languages can recover when a) there is a socioeconomic incentive for the speakers to retain it and b) there is/can be a concentrated base from which to work from. As much as I sympathise with the idea that they wish to reach out to new potential learners, Partick or Edinburgh don't really qualify for b) and the resources diverted to them affect a).

The best thing the Gaelic lobby could do is focus their efforts on their 'stronghold' in the North West, improving the economy somewhat and branch outwards so that the base gets wider, otherwise I don't see this strategy succeeding and this will be a big waste of time and money.

P.S. Regarding the round-trip for the English-speaking schoolchildren at the Gaelic school, the article fails to point out the opposing argument of the vast majority of Gaelic speakers that the usual round trip for a Gaelic schoolchild to get Gaelic medium education is much greater than the rather measly 30 miles they cite.

garye · Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 9:43 pm Post subject:

Dinnae fash yersel "Highlander" I was only meaning square go in the robust debate sense of the word.

However regarding your cretinous ignorance how exactly can you reconcile a statement like:-

RadgeJougal · Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 4:19 pm Post subject:

Not much of a "Highlander" is it?

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British to my rear end.

Cymro · Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 4:21 pm Post subject:

Babygael · Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 5:33 pm Post subject:

And he has the termerity tae call himself "Highlander" ??? Well! Well! Might I make a suggestion? How about "Brassbowl?" Much more fitting!

As we all know and heard a million times,the origional Highlanders/Gaels were cruelly removed from their homes and famillies by the engerlish devils and greedy Scots rogues,(a national disgrace for all time!) "others" The "new"Highlanders, those who kowtowed tae the sasannach gabhar,took over their lands and homes in the Highlands and its surrounds,either with the help of the chief devil's, the sasannach Duke/Dutchess of erm Sutherland ( of whom there is still a statue which hasn't been buldozed intae the sea....yet ...by-the-way!!)

So I suspect no real Highlander with a smattering of enlightenment could be diametrically opposed to their own culture. I doubt they would cut off their own nose to spite their face!

While I suppose its ok to have urdu/punjab etc?

Now I could understand complaints about that far easier than this very boring and frankly discrimitory attack on the language of the Highlanders and others who speak it.

Yet here it is that we have the Local authorities producing information written in the very many Non-National Scottish languages, but not one in the indigenous language of the Gaels?Whats wrong with this picture I ask? Fortunately as far as I can gather this is going to be redressed, finally. Gaelic speakers can conduct their business in their native tongue and the sooner they can get the show on the road, the better.

The good news is that there are still native speakers who stand out like beacons, national hero's. the survivors of the sasannach whirlwind that swept through our country,scattering the Gaidhealtachd Na h-Alba tae the four winds.

Everything was done to elimate you from the face of the earth yet here you still stand against many odds,showing that the spirit of freedom and of independence can overcome all obsticles.Take a bow people!

Oh and Ps erm Hielander, Doric is a DIALECT as opposed to Gaelic which is a LANGUAGE! Shocked

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Here is where I come to water my roots.

agentmancuso · Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 8:18 pm Post subject:

Cymro · Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 9:17 am Post subject:

RadgeJougal · Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:14 pm Post subject:

Aventinian · Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 12:13 am Post subject:

"And dead threads shall walk the earth"
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'Socialists cry "Power to the people", and raise the clenched fist as they say it. We all know what they really mean—power over people, power to the State.'