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Rinty · Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 3:27 pm Post subject:

"jumped all over by you for condoning an attack on peace-loving Iraqis by the landed gentry."

Thats not what I said. I dont consider Ali's regime to be particularly "peace-loving", I understand why they were anti-british especially given the bias in the independence deal. This in turn would lead to them talking to the axis poweres on two basis, 1)a enemy of my enemy is my friend. and 2) To seek a better deal on control of their own oil rights.

Some of the pan-arab nationalist groups were verging on the fascist and I wouldnt support them, but I would support their right to tell Britain to f**k off if they want.

In '41 Ali's govt gave Britain permission to land some troops to assist the war effort, they basically re-occupied the country, landing at basra, claiming Iraq had broken the treaty and installed a more sympathetic govt.

The reinstated the monarchy (sunni arab) and executed the leaders of the previous regime, apart from Ali and a few others who escaped.

I think you will fiind that the germans donated a few planes to the Iraqis but didnt have a base in Iraq. Your man macrobert would have been bombing the fledgling Iraqi airforce, not the germans, the reasons would have been to restore the monarchy in Iraq and therefore the deal britain had on oil under the independence agreement.

"The toffs must have been in the wrong and the peasants must have been innocent victims. You can be such a cliched stereotype at time, Jim."

Again, thats not what I said. I dont think that people who go to foreign countries, aquire land and put the natives to work on slave wages or even outright slavery, deserve some sort of national pride for exploiting that situation and then setting themselves up in a country estate with the proceeds.

She bought four other aircraft by the way, (the american woman who inherited the millions made for her husband from the British India Corporation) see I can google too!

The company her husband formed was nationalised in 1981.

Holebender · Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 5:17 pm Post subject:

Yes, four others, five if you count the second Stirling bomber. I was relying on memory when I first wrote the account.

I think it would be more accurate to describe the widow Macrobert as American-born, don't you? She chose to stay in Scotland for the rest of her life once she'd settled there so I think she can reasonably be considered Scottish. I've no idea what citizenship she had in her later years.
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"My instinct is to agree with your opinion of his verse, but I've never so much as glanced at it." - agentmancuso

Rinty · Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 5:40 pm Post subject:

I'd imagine that she would rather be seen as British seeing as she made her millions from the Biritsh empire and spent it on the british forces.

Holebender · Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 12:35 pm Post subject:

Her sons were in the British forces in time of war. I think she felt she was doing it for them. She had no-one else to leave her money to so she gave it to her sons symbolically.

Let's not forget, however, that the bulk of her estate became the Macrobert Trust which is still very active in the local area and throughout Scotland. The children's hospice movement, for one, has good reason to be grateful for the Macrobert Trust.
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"My instinct is to agree with your opinion of his verse, but I've never so much as glanced at it." - agentmancuso

Rinty · Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 1:00 pm Post subject:

Thats Ok with me holebender, I am sure she thought that she was doping good, but the british war effort in Iraq was a tactic of regime change to ensure britain's oil interests in Mosul and Kirkuk, not some great cause worth celebrating.