 |
Our Scotland - www.our-scotland.org
Scottish Politics Discussion Forum / Messageboard - Dedicated to online discussion about Scottish Politics and an Independent Scotland, as well as Scottish Society today. We also have a section dedicated to Banter, Sport and Recommended Sites.
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Mctosh45
I Love 'Our Scotland'
Joined: 15 Oct 2006
Posts: 300
|
 Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 7:35 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
agentmancuso,
"Already, the more strident posters on this forum refer to anyone who questions their blind allegiance to a nationality that is no more than an accident of birth as 'traitors'".
My country right or wrong eh?
I don't see any blind allegiance, allegiance yes, but certainly not without question. That way only folly lies.
Your utopian world citizen view is laudable but frankly naive.
_________________
It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom -- for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself
(\_/)
(О.о)
(> <)
^ ^
Declaration of Arbroath 1320. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
agentmancuso
Collecting my 'Our Scotland' Pension!
Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 2008
Location: Darkest Lanarkshire
|
| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 7:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I have no 'world citizen view'. I am a citizen of the United Kingdom, and quite happy to remain as one, not that it matters greatly.
I am certainly not a 'utopian', as the slightest familiarity with my posts would make perfectly clear. We cannot design heaven, far less implement it. All we can do is improve it bit by bit, in a piecemeal and practical sort of way.
The absurd idea that nationalism can bring 'freedom' is as close to Utopianism as you're likely to see on this forum, unless that ridiculous Yrotskyite reappears.
_________________
Liberty does not mean all good things, or the absence of all evils
Hayek |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SLG
Born Again..........and still Scottish!
Joined: 16 Sep 2005
Posts: 5515
Location: Dùn Eideann
|
| Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 3:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| agentmancuso wrote: | | The creation of a state on the dubious basis of national identity leads to confusion between the good of the state and the good of the identity group. |
Well Scotland already exists as a state to a degree. Independence would be more about affirming that legislature as primary.
But what is this identity group you refer to? You never really answered my point about the UK identity group or Edinburgh Council identity group. Surely post-independence, everyone who is represented by Holyrood would be, by default, a member of the identity group in question. So where is the conflict?
Let's take another example that I've used before. That of Highland Perthshire. Many people in that area take the view that much of the money raised by them is spent in Perth rather than their own area. Of course people use the services in Perth as well, but they are much more remote from Perth than the rest of the county. So there is an underlying desire for 'more powers' for their distinct region of P&K, or the ability for them to run a separate council or for them to move to Highland council which has a better record of supporting more rural areas.
So what we have is an area with a distinct identity that is looking to improve their governance to reflect that. Should a new 'Highland Perthshire' area distinct from the remaining P&K area be set up, would it lead to "confusion between the good of the state [council area] and the good of the identity group"?
| agentmancuso wrote: | | At times of unpopularity, the state emphasises the solidarity of the group through identity, as a way of deflecting criticism, and eventually equates criticism of the state with disloyalty to the group. |
Yes, and the UK is as culpable of that as any country. So I hardly see that as a reason for retaining the Union.
| agentmancuso wrote: | | Already, the more strident posters on this forum refer to anyone who questions their blind allegiance to a nationality that is no more than an accident of birth as 'traitors'. |
That has always been the case even within the Union. Can you argue that this nationalism will increase post-independence?
You have said a number of times that you are not a Unionists. It sounds to me like you are scared that and independent Scotland will become some fascist nationalist state and that the Union saves us from ourselves. I have more faith in the people that would form a post-independent Scotland.
"This country is a blessed country. The British are special. The world knows it, we know it, this is the greatest country on earth." - T. Blair
Now compare that with Salmond's 'nationalist rhetoric' where he has said on a number of occasions that Scotland and her people are no better or worse than anywhere else.
Last edited by SLG on Mon May 21, 2007 3:16 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SLG
Born Again..........and still Scottish!
Joined: 16 Sep 2005
Posts: 5515
Location: Dùn Eideann
|
| Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 3:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| agentmancuso wrote: | | The absurd idea that nationalism can bring 'freedom' is as close to Utopianism as you're likely to see on this forum, unless that ridiculous Yrotskyite reappears. |
If Scottish nationalists were not of the opinion that the UK state impinges on their identity, then we would only be lest with the economic argument. For some people, independence will 'free' them to enjoy their identity on another level. Of course that will have a negative impact on those holding a British identity that is linked to the UK state. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
agentmancuso
Collecting my 'Our Scotland' Pension!
Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 2008
Location: Darkest Lanarkshire
|
| Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 7:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| SLG wrote: | | Edinburgh Council identity group |
No sane person has an emotional attachment to their local authority. For the very same reason, nobody every gets killed in inter-local authority disputes. Nor do residents of one local authority get uppity about residents from the other local authority moving into 'their' area and stealing their jobs. Residents of one local authority rarely profess to hate residents of another, or to feel that their way of life is threatened by them. Residents of one local authority rarely whine on for hours about how the residents of another local authority have been oppressing them for centuries.
Moral of the story: avoid stirring up irrational emotional attachments to administrative structures, and correspondingly, increase the powers of those structures to which emotional attachments are less likely to be formed.
| Quote: | | agentmancuso wrote: | | At times of unpopularity, the state emphasises the solidarity of the group through identity, as a way of deflecting criticism, and eventually equates criticism of the state with disloyalty to the group. |
Yes, and the UK is as culpable of that as any country. |
No it clearly isn't. People in the UK are not murdered by the state for printing criticism of the government, as they are in Russia say.
| Quote: | | agentmancuso wrote: | | Already, the more strident posters on this forum refer to anyone who questions their blind allegiance to a nationality that is no more than an accident of birth as 'traitors'. |
That has always been the case even within the Union. Can you argue that this nationalism will increase post-independence? |
In a British context, the only people who use that sort of language are considered to be right-wing nutters. In a Scottish context, they pretend to be social democrats. And yes, it would increase 'post-independence'.
| Quote: | | You have said a number of times that you are not a Unionists. It sounds to me like you are scared that and independent Scotland will become some fascist nationalist state and that the Union saves us from ourselves. I have more faith in the people that would form a post-independent Scotland. |
I would have no fear of - and would actively encourage - the transfer of as much practical power as proves possible to the Scottish parliament, because I believe that power exercised closer to the people is less likely to be abused. But I question the motivation -and political literacy - of those who proclaim 'freedom' while basing their appeal on irrational and emotionalist oppression fantasy.
| Quote: | "This country is a blessed country. The British are special. The world knows it, we know it, this is the greatest country on earth." - T. Blair
|
Blair is a tit. What's new?
_________________
Liberty does not mean all good things, or the absence of all evils
Hayek |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
agentmancuso
Collecting my 'Our Scotland' Pension!
Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 2008
Location: Darkest Lanarkshire
|
| Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 7:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| SLG wrote: | | If Scottish nationalists were not of the opinion that the UK state impinges on their identity, then we would only be lest with the economic argument. |
The state is neither a vehicle for, nor a guarantor of, identity. The state should treat all individuals as equal before the law, irrespective of the individual's professed identity. Otherwise, identity is not the state's business.
_________________
Liberty does not mean all good things, or the absence of all evils
Hayek |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SLG
Born Again..........and still Scottish!
Joined: 16 Sep 2005
Posts: 5515
Location: Dùn Eideann
|
| Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 9:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| agentmancuso wrote: | | SLG wrote: | | Edinburgh Council identity group |
No sane person has an emotional attachment to their local authority. |
People do have an emotional attachment to their county and their town or city. People are very proud of Edinburgh and the city council is an extension of that. You never heard of civic pride? Is there really such a great difference between nationalism and civic pride?
| agentmancuso wrote: | | For the very same reason, nobody every gets killed in inter-local authority disputes. |
There is certainly occasion tension between different parts of the country just as their is between the different countries of the UK. I don't expect there to be much more violence due to Scottish nationalism as due to Edinburgh cityism.
| agentmancuso wrote: | | Nor do residents of one local authority get uppity about residents from the other local authority moving into 'their' area and stealing their jobs. |
You'd be surprised. In the certain part of Perthshire I have previously referred to, there is a slight issue with 'white settlers', but it's not a big issue. A larger issue at the moment in certain parts is the number of Glaswegian families who have been rehoused into the area. Between them and crime caused by people coming up from the west central belt, it's fair to say it's not uncommon to hear people complain about the weegies.
| agentmancuso wrote: | | Residents of one local authority rarely profess to hate residents of another, or to feel that their way of life is threatened by them. |
Have you ever been to a football match between the big Glasgow and Edinburgh teams? You hear a lot of anti-Glasgow and anti-Edinburgh abuse.
| agentmancuso wrote: | | Residents of one local authority rarely whine on for hours about how the residents of another local authority have been oppressing them for centuries. |
I have often read Glaswegians talk about how they are the biggest city and the Parliament should have been sited there. And Edinburgh folk complain about how Glaswegians have all the taxes spent on keeping them on incapacity benefit etc.
To go back to my Highland Perthshire example, you have a low level of resentment against the 'metropolitan' ( ) centre. Put that on a larger scale and have Edinburgh run from Glasgow as part of an expanded Strathclyde Regional Council. A lot of Edinburgh folk would be very pissed off and it would turn out to be unworkable IMO. However no one would be so foolish as to suggest this. If there is more chance of violence due to Scottish nationalism, it is because we are upping the scale again. More people, more chance of nutters, more chance of mass organisation, more money and power involved etc. The principle is the same though IMO.
| agentmancuso wrote: | | Moral of the story: avoid stirring up irrational emotional attachments to administrative structures, and correspondingly, increase the powers of those structures to which emotional attachments are less likely to be formed. |
People are not attached to the administrative structure per se. In Edinburgh, it is the city and its people. That just happens to be represented by the city council. In Scotland it is the land, the country and her people. You won't even find many nationalist that talk up the present Scots Parliament as being up to much. I think you are hitting on a bit of a red herring there.
For me, the moral is this: people have an identity, it's human nature. This exists on all different levels. There are positive and negative aspects to this. To try and to deny that and govern without considering that is doomed to failure and doomed to stir up the kind of bother you seem to want to avoid.
| agentmancuso wrote: | | Quote: | | agentmancuso wrote: | | At times of unpopularity, the state emphasises the solidarity of the group through identity, as a way of deflecting criticism, and eventually equates criticism of the state with disloyalty to the group. |
Yes, and the UK is as culpable of that as any country. |
No it clearly isn't. People in the UK are not murdered by the state for printing criticism of the government, as they are in Russia say. |
Ok, well the UK is as culpable as any Western nation-state.
| agentmancuso wrote: | | Quote: | | agentmancuso wrote: | | Already, the more strident posters on this forum refer to anyone who questions their blind allegiance to a nationality that is no more than an accident of birth as 'traitors'. |
That has always been the case even within the Union. Can you argue that this nationalism will increase post-independence? |
In a British context, the only people who use that sort of language are considered to be right-wing nutters. In a Scottish context, they pretend to be social democrats. And yes, it would increase 'post-independence'. |
Because most of those 'social democratic' Scots nationalists are nothing like the British ethnic-nationalist. I'm sure you know that fine well. Anyway, my point was not to compare the two, but that Scots nationalism is widespread within the enlightened Union framework and yet it does not dominate our politics. So my question is, why would an independent Scotland suddenly be dominated with fascist nationalist sentiment?
| agentmancuso wrote: | | Quote: | | You have said a number of times that you are not a Unionists. It sounds to me like you are scared that and independent Scotland will become some fascist nationalist state and that the Union saves us from ourselves. I have more faith in the people that would form a post-independent Scotland. |
I would have no fear of - and would actively encourage - the transfer of as much practical power as proves possible to the Scottish parliament, because I believe that power exercised closer to the people is less likely to be abused. But I question the motivation -and political literacy - of those who proclaim 'freedom' while basing their appeal on irrational and emotionalist oppression fantasy. |
I don't think you will find any of our elected politicians doing this. I also don't think you'll find many individual members of the public who take that stuff seriously. It gets mentioned and it is a factor, but I think you'll struggle to find many who don't rationalise it as such. That's how you can get some of the most nationalistic people who are still Unionist.
| agentmancuso wrote: | | Quote: | "This country is a blessed country. The British are special. The world knows it, we know it, this is the greatest country on earth." - T. Blair
|
Blair is a tit. What's new? |
Blair is the Prime Minister of the UK. My point is that the UK and her leader already carry many of the negative characteristics of nationalism that you fear from Salmond and a post-independence Scotland. I think Scotland will be more outward looking and tolerant than the UK and the break up of the UK will be a good thing for international relations. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SLG
Born Again..........and still Scottish!
Joined: 16 Sep 2005
Posts: 5515
Location: Dùn Eideann
|
| Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 9:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| agentmancuso wrote: | | The state is neither a vehicle for, nor a guarantor of, identity. The state should treat all individuals as equal before the law, irrespective of the individual's professed identity. Otherwise, identity is not the state's business. |
Today, the UK state influences identity heavily IMO. If it were not the case, one of the arguments for independence would not apply. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
UnionistScot
Finding Ma' Way
Joined: 02 Aug 2007
Posts: 2
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 9:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Niall is starting to annoy me now. if there is a genuine case for Scottish independence, why make statistics up??
In 'question' 1, (don't you mean 'claim' or 'fact' as those aren't questions), you state 8.6% of the UK population provides 10.41% of tax revenues..........As Scotland's GDP of £86bn is only 7.17% of the UK's £1,200bn GDP, that suggests our tax rates are 30% higher than everyone elses, which it isn't.
In 2., you say Scotland gave £42.7bn to Westminster. No, it didn't. We spent that on our own services and also received another £12bn from London as you say yourself in 'the great lie' thread'.
In 3., as already stated, those reserves are in hard-to-get places, otherwise we would be drilling there already!
In 5., you state that Scotland could spend 1.6% of it's GDP and have a military half that of the UK's........Ridiculous! 1.6% of Scotland's £86bn GDP is £1.376bn and you claim that would give us a military half the size of the UK's £38bn military! £1.376bn would buy two frigates with little left for an army and an air force!
In 7., you list Denmark, Switzerland and Singapore, three nations with far higher productivity than us. Switzerland is also a world leader in banking and Singapore is a major regional trading hub, hence their wealth.
8, 9 and 10 are purely subjective and not based on any fact. Iceland is extremely rich in mineral resources, has plentiful cheap geothermal energy, is another major tax-free banking centre and a tiny population. True, we are a growing banking nation but London, Paris and frankfurt are really in a league of their own.
Which idiot made claim no.10 though??
Anyway, I say again, if there is genuine case for us to leave the UK then show it. Please do not make such claims as they are easily refuted and it does the cause to good whatsoever. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Economist
I really have nothing else to do!!!
Joined: 22 Apr 2006
Posts: 939
Location: Edinburgh
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 9:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Dear oh dear, UnionistScot, what a terrible tale of woe you infer about Scotland's economy, in the Union.
| UnionistScot wrote: | | In 'question' 1, (don't you mean 'claim' or 'fact' as those aren't questions), you state 8.6% of the UK population provides 10.41% of tax revenues..........As Scotland's GDP of £86bn is only 7.17% of the UK's £1,200bn GDP, that suggests our tax rates are 30% higher than everyone elses, which it isn't. |
I don't want to be unkind, but taxation revenue, public expenditure and Gross Domestic Product are three separate things. You can't really infer levels of taxation from Gross Domestic Product. GDP refers to the value of all goods and services produced in an economy over a given period of time (eg a year). It hasn't anything to do with tax.
| UnionistScot wrote: | | In 2., you say Scotland gave £42.7bn to Westminster. No, it didn't. We spent that on our own services and also received another £12bn from London as you say yourself in 'the great lie' thread'. |
That would imply that total expenditure in Scotland was about £55bn (am I correct?) Even the Government's hotly disputed figures do not put public expenditure anywhere near this level in Scotland. The budget of the Executive in the latest financial year was not even yet £30bn (on government figures.) So your point here, makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
| UnionistScot wrote: | | In 3., as already stated, those reserves are in hard-to-get places, otherwise we would be drilling there already! |
I hate to break it to you again, but oil companies are drilling in these hard-to get places. The Oil price is so high at the moment, to make such activities profitable. Just in the same way that the Treasury is getting more revenue out of the North Sea than almost any other time in the last 25 years.
| UnionistScot wrote: | | In 5., you state that Scotland could spend 1.6% of it's GDP and have a military half that of the UK's........Ridiculous! 1.6% of Scotland's £86bn GDP is £1.376bn and you claim that would give us a military half the size of the UK's £38bn military! £1.376bn would buy two frigates with little left for an army and an air force! |
I think the reference was to the armed forces. Switzerland manages a huge professional armed force - a trained militia, if you like. It has Armed forces, which are far better, more professional, better trained and equipped than its UK counterparts, for much less than the UK spends on them. I doubt an independent Scotland would need a huge navy or air force. Personally, I see such expenditures as wasteful, more reminiscent of a post-colonial "power" than a modern self-equipped European nation in the 21st century.
| UnionistScot wrote: | | In 7., you list Denmark, Switzerland and Singapore, three nations with far higher productivity than us. Switzerland is also a world leader in banking and Singapore is a major regional trading hub, hence their wealth. |
That's the point. These countries are far better off than Scotland. Singapore has absolutely nothing to it at all, but a highly educated workforce. It has no land or resources, but has developed into one of the richest countries in the world. If it can, then why cannot Scotland. On the face of it, there is nothing inherent capable about these countries that Scotland cannot mould for itself.
| UnionistScot wrote: | | 8, 9 and 10 are purely subjective and not based on any fact. Iceland is extremely rich in mineral resources, has plentiful cheap geothermal energy, is another major tax-free banking centre and a tiny population. True, we are a growing banking nation but London, Paris and frankfurt are really in a league of their own. |
It doesn't matter whether the big cities of New York and Frankfurt are global banking centres of excellence (or are in a league of their own). Arguably Jersey, Guernsey and Andorra benefit far more from banking than London does, even though they have smaller populations. The reason is that banking is a far bigger component of their wealth and their economy, than in large global centres of financial transactions like Frankfurt. Indeed that could increasingly be said of Scotland. Scotland is rich in resources and in banking and financial expertise.
| UnionistScot wrote: | | Anyway, I say again, if there is genuine case for us to leave the UK then show it. Please do not make such claims as they are easily refuted and it does the cause to good whatsoever. |
You'll find plenty of arguments for Scotland leaving the UK, on these forums and elsewhere.
_________________
Taurus excreta cerebrum vincit - Bullshit baffles brains |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Holebender
I need ma own bl**dy forum!
Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 1368
Location: Here or There
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 10:09 am Post subject: |
|
|
I'm sorry to have to break it to you, UnionistScot, but a few sweeping (but unsubstantiated) statements from you will do nothing to convince anyone of the merits of the Union. You have failed to refute anything in these threads but have, yourself, been refuted by Economist. You really must try harder if you hope to gain any credibility. The level of your arguments so far indicate you're more likely to be convinced long before you convince anyone.
Good luck just the same, and welcome to the forum.
_________________
"My instinct is to agree with your opinion of his verse, but I've never so much as glanced at it." - agentmancuso |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
azzuri
'Our Scotland' Fossil
Joined: 12 Sep 2005
Posts: 3792
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 11:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Welcome to the forums UnionistScot
_________________
"Every single person on this planet is unique. Just like everyone else..." - Random Guy in Edinburgh Pub
Possibly the funniest site in the world, 'The Daily Mash' - http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
iolaire
Finding Ma' Way
Joined: 12 Sep 2007
Posts: 13
Location: Kyle
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The main reason why I would support independence is because of the unmentionable policies of Labour ( and if Cameron were to win, the unmentionable policies of the Tories). I supported SNP mainly because I wanted to see McConnell out, and I want a party that puts Scotland first. I am not a strongly committed independence supporter, but I believe that the way things have gone with Blair, and are going with Brown, there may be no alternative. I dont want to be allied with a war-mongering declining superpower; I dont want to see us involved in imperialist aggression, killling hundreds of thousands of people to grab their assets; I dont want to see us give carte blanche to the Israeli government; I dont want to see a new generation of nuclear weapons on the Clyde, or nuclear power stations on our north coast; I dont want genetically modified food grown on Scottish soil; and I dont want our social services sold to the private sector.
Scotland has an amazing amount to offer the world, and instead of gallivanting with barbarians like Bush, I would like to see Scotland join the non-aligned movement and strengthen relations with the emerging superpowers: China, Brazil, India, strengthen our ties with the Scandinavian countries, and chart a decent, moral, and humane course in the world. I want no more Blairismin either its original form or its clunking -fist disguise. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
iolaire
Finding Ma' Way
Joined: 12 Sep 2007
Posts: 13
Location: Kyle
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ..and to add, I have spent most of my working life in international development, am a half decent economist, and have many highly regarded economists as friends. The arguments that Scotland would fail economically if it were to become independent, is ludicrous. Of course, any government leading Scotland to independence would have to deal with the massive costs of social services. But if Estonia and Slovenia (two countries I know well) can prosper as independent countries within the EU, then there is no doubt that Scotland can too. There are many models of small, recently independent countries from which Scotland can learn; and given Scottish ingenuity, inventiveness, scientific brilliance, the long banking and business tradition, its vast renewable energy resources, and whisky, we may struggle at first but we wont fail. And for those who keep mentioning Scotland's military under independence, it is my hope that Scotland will turn its back on militarism. No one is going to invade us (unless you believe the crap peddled by the White House and John Reid), so we can save ourselves a great deal of money by having little more than a home guard. Its the intensive militarised and imperialist countries that attract attack. No one is attacking Finland !!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
deansyme
Finding Ma' Way
Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 8
Location: west Lothian
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 9:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
phew....took me a few hours to read all that...i'll put ma tuppence worth in the 'morrow...
hae a guid nicht all
Dean
_________________
http://www.scotlandsgiftshop.com
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
agentmancuso
Collecting my 'Our Scotland' Pension!
Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 2008
Location: Darkest Lanarkshire
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 5:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| x_scotsdream_x wrote: | Let me tell you all something though. A few days ago i was listening to a scottish radio station and on their show they were interviewing the leading bird flu researcher of Scotland - he was English. Then to follow they interviewed two senior professors of a SCOTTISH university and to my disgust heard another two ENGLISH voices. To be honest back on that amazing day in 1314 when our ancestors and scottish hero's fought for our independance, our independance was not won - the english just let us have a little bit of space for a few years and Scotland is now suffering from the same battle in a more modern and technological way. If it was up to our english neighbours, our wonderful nation would be yet another English city! I personally am sick and tired of being the "underdogs" because who exactly are we underdogs to? the english? I beg to differ, many scots are listening too much to english media and are allowing them to take over our land and i personally think it is time to put a stop to this! Keeping in mind i am 19 years old - i am still very passionate about our country and all of my friends agree with me.
Surely its time to put an end to the snobbery and give scotland exactly what it needs, what we have been fighting for all our days, Freedom!!?! |
I hadn't noticed this one before. He seems to have disappeared. Not hiding in Coull's Chicken Coop I hope?
_________________
Liberty does not mean all good things, or the absence of all evils
Hayek |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SLG
Born Again..........and still Scottish!
Joined: 16 Sep 2005
Posts: 5515
Location: Dùn Eideann
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 9:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Did you also notice my responses to your own posts further up the thread? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
agentmancuso
Collecting my 'Our Scotland' Pension!
Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 2008
Location: Darkest Lanarkshire
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 9:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Can't say I did - remind me? 
_________________
Liberty does not mean all good things, or the absence of all evils
Hayek |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SLG
Born Again..........and still Scottish!
Joined: 16 Sep 2005
Posts: 5515
Location: Dùn Eideann
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 9:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| The two posts above, dated Mon May 21, 2007 15:05 pm and Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 21:29 pm. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
agentmancuso
Collecting my 'Our Scotland' Pension!
Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 2008
Location: Darkest Lanarkshire
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 11:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Don't you think that the post from scotsdream suggests I might not be making it all up?
_________________
Liberty does not mean all good things, or the absence of all evils
Hayek |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Join! (free) 
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
