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Cymro
I need ma own bl**dy forum!
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
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 Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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Well I hate poerty, I can't be bothered with them at all. But if you where to look at the major and most famous British poets I'd argue Rabbie Burns would be very very high up.
It's probably your wanting to slate anything and everything recently in a series of threads that might be behind the prejudice comments. Not been getting any recently or something Agent? 
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agentmancuso
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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I like poetry. I think it important even. Burns is certainly well known in the English speaking world. But I don't think that significance can entirely be reduced to notoriety when speaking of literature, or art of any kind.
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Cymro
I need ma own bl**dy forum!
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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Well despite my hatred of poetry if you asked me for the name of a famous poet Robert Burns would be very high up alongside Dylan Thomas and Shakespere. Ask me for a poem he'd written and like Shakespere I wouldn't have a clue.
"Under Milkwood" on the other hand..... |
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RadgeJougal
I really have nothing else to do!!!
Joined: 15 May 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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| agentmancuso wrote: | | Not many people know that. Fewer have ever read a line he wrote, unless forced to in school, be it prose or poetry. |
Fair enough, but many people have still heard of Wattie. If only because of his big tower on Princes Street.
You just did read a line he wrote, more or less
"Oh what a tangled web we weave"
| Quote: | | But not, I think, poetry of the highest calibre. |
No one can agree on what is though... I don't think Scott's a good pet, only that many people have heard of him.
As for the major poet business, apart from the numerous languages he's been translated into, his influence turns up in surprising places.
"Catcher in the Rye" and "Of Mice and Men", those American novels that kids are forced to study in school, both take their names from lines in Burns' poems.
Last edited by RadgeJougal on Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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RadgeJougal
I really have nothing else to do!!!
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Cymro wrote: | Well despite my hatred of poetry if you asked me for the name of a famous poet Robert Burns would be very high up alongside Dylan Thomas and Shakespere. Ask me for a poem he'd written and like Shakespere I wouldn't have a clue.
"Under Milkwood" on the other hand..... |
I'm sure you'll even know some of Shakespeare's poetry, especially the quote below, since part of the last line was the title of a show which gave a certain Welsh actress her big break.
Part of his 18th sonnet
| Quote: | Shall I compare thee to a summer's day?
Thou art more lovely and more temperate:
Rough winds do shake the darling buds of May |
I'm no expert on poetry, but there's huge number of quotes that are floating around, along with sayings etc, that come from Shakespeare and Scott. The difference is, with Burns, that it's usually linked back to him. |
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agentmancuso
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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| RadgeJougal wrote: | | Fair enough, but many people have still heard of Wattie. If only because of his big tower on Princes Street. |
I'm sure I read that his statue in George Square is the highest statue of an author in the world, or something of the sort.
| Quote: | | "Oh what a tangled web we weave" |
I didn't know that was from Scott either.
| Quote: | | Quote: | | But not, I think, poetry of the highest calibre. |
No one can agree on what is though... I don't think Scott's a good pet, only that many people have heard of him. |
Scott is a figure of enormous importance in the development of the European novel, and highly regarded on the continent as a result. My instinct is to agree with your opinion of his verse, but I've never so much as glanced at it.
[/quote]
Ha! Very good.
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RadgeJougal
I really have nothing else to do!!!
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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| AM - I rate Walter Scott far more highly as an influence. He influenced Balzac, Tolstoy and reams of other very very well known authors. However a lot of his stuff's pretty hard to get into. I found Waverley unreadable. He started out life as a poet, ended as a novelist. I can't forgive him for his conscious manipulation of Scottish history though, and his dire attempts at Gaelic. How could a man who was fluent in several languages (German and French amongst them) fail to pick up Gaelic properly? |
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Holebender
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:06 am Post subject: |
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| agentmancuso wrote: | | My instinct is to agree with your opinion of his verse, but I've never so much as glanced at it. |
Well well well. No prejudice there then, eh?
I wonder how many other opinions you express on here without so much as glancing at the arguments for or against.
I think I might just have to bookmark that little phrase of yours.
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"My instinct is to agree with your opinion of his verse, but I've never so much as glanced at it." - agentmancuso |
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Cymro
I need ma own bl**dy forum!
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 11:21 am Post subject: |
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"I'm sure you'll even know some of Shakespeare's poetry,"
Fraid not |
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agentmancuso
Getting on a bit!
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Holebender wrote: | | agentmancuso wrote: | | My instinct is to agree with your opinion of his verse, but I've never so much as glanced at it. |
Well well well. No prejudice there then, eh?
I wonder how many other opinions you express on here without so much as glancing at the arguments for or against.
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The difference is that when I make an uniformed comment I openly advertise it as such. It's hardly surprising that you be troubled by that I suppose.
The opinion I offered was based on the importance afforded to Scott by European Romantic and later writers, such as those mentioned by RJ, plus Stendhal and many others. The academic consensus is that it's impossible to seriously study the novel as a form of literature and not consider Scott in some way or another. Of his poetry, little is said. If you have any informed opinion to the contrary I'd be glad to take it into account from now on?
No, I thought not.
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agentmancuso
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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| RadgeJougal wrote: | | I found Waverley unreadable. He started out life as a poet, ended as a novelist. |
As far as I can remember I've only ever read Rob Roy. I've long intended to have a go at Old Mortality, but never got round to it. But as you say, the poetry is not particularly appealing.
| Quote: | | I can't forgive him for his conscious manipulation of Scottish history though |
Why not? Isn't that what novelists do?
| Quote: | | How could a man who was fluent in several languages (German and French amongst them) fail to pick up Gaelic properly? |
Well I'm fluent in several languages and I've never made any headway with Gaelic either. I suspect, like me, Scott didn't try hard enough.
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RadgeJougal
I really have nothing else to do!!!
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Cymro wrote: | "I'm sure you'll even know some of Shakespeare's poetry,"
Fraid not |
You telling me you've never heard of the "Darling Buds of May", the series which gave us Catherine Zeta Jones?
| Quote: | | I suspect, like me, Scott didn't try hard enough. |
You wouldn't have been surrounded by Gaidhlig speaking monoglots. Scott was, frequently. He showed a great deal of linguistic ability, which explains the strong German influence on his work, and his ability to write so well on Napoleon having used the original sources. |
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Aventinian
'Our Scotland' Fossil
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Cymro wrote: | "I'm sure you'll even know some of Shakespeare's poetry,"
Fraid not |
Shall I compare thee to a summer's day...?
...nah, I don't imagine you'd come out of it well. 
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jimtrot
No Longer a Wean
Joined: 16 May 2007
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| Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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| agentmancuso wrote: | | William_Cleland wrote: | | You badly need to get a grip if you genuinely think Burns was a minor poet |
What possible argument would you like to make for Burns as a major poet? |
His works, ya choob.
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Morph
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| Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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Personally i like "Scots Wae Hae"
Not because of the tones in the poem but it was my first burns poem i learned in school
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mairead
Jim Baxter is God...........really!!!!
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| Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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Radge,
Are you not aware that Walter Scott was a traitor to Scotland. In the 1820 weavers rising, he infiltrated the movement and was an informer to the Westminster government.
Due to his spying, men were executed and many sent to the colonies. It was for this work that he was granted his Baronecy.
Later he was dumped by the King and Government he worked so hard for, and went into a state of poverty. Hell mend him too. If I had my way I'd wipe his name from every book and paper.
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mairead
Jim Baxter is God...........really!!!!
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
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Location: Argyll, Alba
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| Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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Yep Morph, I agree with your choice.
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Morph
I really have nothing else to do!!!
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| Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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as i said though purely from a memory from school not for any other reason. Well ok maybe a bit
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RadgeJougal
I really have nothing else to do!!!
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| Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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| mairead wrote: | Radge,
Are you not aware that Walter Scott was a traitor to Scotland. In the 1820 weavers rising, he infiltrated the movement and was an informer to the Westminster government.
Due to his spying, men were executed and many sent to the colonies. It was for this work that he was granted his Baronecy.
Later he was dumped by the King and Government he worked so hard for, and went into a state of poverty. Hell mend him too. If I had my way I'd wipe his name from every book and paper. |
And? |
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mairead
Jim Baxter is God...........really!!!!
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Location: Argyll, Alba
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| Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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Is 'And' the best reply you can make to a simple, straightforward question then? 
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