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carol · Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 5:37 pm Post subject:

i'm agreed on keep the momentum there btw, although in this instance it's still needing some work done to build it up

best of luck

Dave Coull · Independentista Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 1092

Carol wrote "There should be enough known activists, to enable a successful day out on the streets"

The folk that turned up for today's Independence Convention petition activity on the streets of Dundee were all known to me. Five out of six of us were members of Determination, the only one that was not a member of Determination was "Red Justice". I think you had guessed whose pseudo-name that was, and both you and I have had our differences with him, but like I said in an earlier post "The position is that anybody who is prepared to support the SIC petition, and to seek to get members of the general public to sign it, and who is prepared to work with others who may have very different views from themselves, is invited to take part"; and like Red Justice said in an earlier post "I just get on with what is required of me", which is what we all did today.

Carol also wrote "it doesn't take 2 mins to ditch sheets of petitions in bins etc"

Why would anybody go to all the trouble of turning up on a cold, windy day, spend an hour and a half collecting signatures on a petition sheet, then throw them in the bin?

carol · Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 8:14 pm Post subject:

ditching petitions etc was an example of abusing campaign material it's easy enough done. That's why in this instance the sensitivity of those signatures should take priority. Encouraging just anyone to canvass is not ideal for this campaign (in my opinion)

regarding RJ I did suspect who he was but wasn't sure (and no disrespect to him), I'm surprised you survived on good terms, moreso with your despicable 'attacks' against him on public forums previously, it actually says a lot for RJ being able to restrain himself.

Seriously Dave it's moments like this you should sit back and reflect on your behaviour on public forums against various individuals, and wonder why folk like Radge take delight on taking personal jibes at you.

Dave Coull · Independentista Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 1092

I really didn't want to get into this, Carol, because it is a side-issue which can distract from the need to concentrate on campaigning for a referendum on independence for Scotland. But you have left me with no choice. As you may know, last year RJ was fined £250 by Arbroath Sherrif Court for what was described as racially-aggravated harrassment (of a fellow member of Independence First). He acknowledges he made a "mistake" in referring to her English roots in e-mails in the course of a disagreement, but considers the decision of that court unjust. As you also know very well, RJ had earlier been expelled from Independence First, the only person ever to be expelled from the organisation. You are also well aware of the reasons for that expulsion. Yet today he was willing to work alongside five people who, when they were members of IF, were part of the majority which supported expulsion. And we were also willing to work with him, as people involved together in petitioning for a referendum on independence, and willing to work with those of very different views. Why could you not have just left it at that?

carol · Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 8:01 am Post subject:

you're the lowest of low, you didn't have to go into the details, but yes that's you at your worst.

nothing can justify your despicable attacks on any individual on public forums, moreso the undefended ones. I can only hope you apologised to him for it.

Dave Coull · Independentista Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 1092

Carol wrote "you didn't have to go into the details" - unfortunately, Carol, YOU left me with absolutely no choice in the matter. Like I said, I really didn't want to get into this, because it is a side-issue which can distract from the need to concentrate on campaigning for a referendum on independence for Scotland. I would really have much preferred to concentrate on the good news, which is that, yesterday, six people collected signatures on the Independence Convention petition in the centre of Dundee. Okay, so it may only be a little piece of good news. But if all those who support the petition, in cities, towns and villages throughout Scotland, follow this active example, then the target of 100,000 signatures will be achievable within a reasonable space of time, the Scottish Parliament will have to consider the petition, and even those MSPs who are dubious about a referendum will have to recognise that there are no good grounds for refusing democracy.

carol · Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 8:48 am Post subject:

You had a choice, you chose a route that would attempt to justify previous attacks on the individual, you could've chose not to go down that route, you could've let matters lie

you are beneath contempt

Dave Coull · Independentista Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 1092

Carol says "you could've let matters lie"

YOU could have chosen to let matters remain undisturbed. When you chose instead to stir things up in a one-sided manner, I had no option but to give at least a few details to try to put matters straight. You could have chosen to celebrate the fact that, yesterday, six people peacefully collected signatures on the Independence Convention petition in the centre of Dundee. Instead, you seem almost disappointed by this. It was you who chose to bring up the past where RJ was concerned. Yes, I was one of a sizeable group of people, some still members of Independence First and some now Determination, who voted to expell RJ. That was done with great regret, but I still think it was justified at the time. Nevertheless, yesterday, RJ was one of six people who peacefully collected signatures on the Independence Convention petition in the centre of Dundee. Okay, so that may only be a little piece of good news. But if all those who support the petition, in cities, towns and villages throughout Scotland, follow this active example, then the target of 100,000 signatures will be achievable within a reasonable space of time, the Scottish Parliament will have to consider the petition, and even those MSPs who are dubious about a referendum will have to recognise that there are no good grounds for refusing democracy.

carol · Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:38 am Post subject:

Dave you brought our association with RJ into the equation when there was no need for it whatsoever.

Dave Coull · Independentista Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 1092

Carol says "you brought our association with RJ into the equation when there was no need for it whatsoever" - no, Carol you were the one who chose to rake over old coals where RJ was concerned, all I did was (very reluctantly, with great regret) respond to you. If you had not chosen to rake over this matter, in a highly biased fashion, I would not have felt the need to respond. You could have chosen to celebrate the fact that, yesterday, six people peacefully collected signatures on the Independence Convention petition in the centre of Dundee. Instead, you seem almost disappointed by this. I know that, although they don't take part in the discussion, quite a few members of the Independence Convention do read this forum. They will have noted which of us is thinking positive. It was you who chose to bring up the past where RJ was concerned. Yes, I was one of a sizeable group of people, some still members of Independence First and some now Determination, who voted to expell RJ. That was done with great regret, but yes, I do still think it was justified at the time. Nevertheless, yesterday, RJ was one of six people who peacefully collected signatures on the Independence Convention petition in the centre of Dundee. Okay, so that may only be a little piece of good news. But if all those who support the petition, in cities, towns and villages throughout Scotland, follow this active example, then the target of 100,000 signatures will be achievable within a reasonable space of time, the Scottish Parliament will have to consider the petition, and even those MSPs who are dubious about a referendum will have to recognise that there are no good grounds for refusing democracy. Smile

carol · Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 10:29 am Post subject:

so your 'performance' is for the benefit of SIC, you've a very sick way of drawing attention to yourself.

You never do anything very reluctantly with great regret, you relish in stirring it up for folk. Regardless your despicable attacks previously on another individual was uncalled for. You chose to rake through the coals, there was no need to relate association with RJ on this forum, especially with a court case.

azzuri · 'Our Scotland' Fossil Joined: 12 Sep 2005 Posts: 3796

Thread locked.

Petty bickering detracting from the main topic once again...
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