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Scott2006

from The Independent Monday 14 April, 2008

Schools win approval for tougher alternative to A-level

Aventinian

Scott2006 · Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:00 pm Post subject:

Aventinian: Yes I was aware that A-level is taught in some independent schools in Scotland.
If this new exam is seen to overcome the short-comings of A-level and indeed Higher and Higher Still then in the next few years able students might gain a qualification that helps to reduce the rate at which students in higher education pull out of their course - saving money and increasing the number of graduates.

I agree that a common standard for examinations across the various countries of the UK would be an advantage, BUT I don't think it neccessarily has to be in the hands of the UK government. Why not have an educational body answerable to a joint body of the UK parliament-government and an interparliamentary forum.
Forcing change from the centre would be counter-productive but a fair and reasonable extension of recognition of school qualification across the countries of the UK could through discussion and planning be achieved.
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Scotland deserves a First rate Parliament for a First rate People
The Scottish Parliamentarians who voted for Treaty of Union in 1706 and signed away Independence had been voted for by less than 2% of the Scottish population

RadgeJougal · Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:04 pm Post subject:

Aventinian (or howver you spell it) is right. There are a couple of reasons why they do this - firstly because they have always been Anglocentric institutions, and fixated on anglicising young Scots, and secondly, because Highers are dire. Standard Grades are even worse.

Aventinian · Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 1:44 am Post subject:

Holebender · Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 12:01 pm Post subject:

You make some strange points for someone who often posts his loathing for democracy.
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"My instinct is to agree with your opinion of his verse, but I've never so much as glanced at it." - agentmancuso

Aventinian · Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:31 pm Post subject:

Holebender

Pip · Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 6:02 pm Post subject:

From what I've seen of these they look like a good idea.

The new style A-Levels (introduced in 2001 IIRC) have been a bit of disaster.
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Smile at us, pay us, pass us; but do not quite forget,
For we are the people of England, that never has spoken yet.

from The Secret People by G K Chesterton.

Shagpile · No Longer a Wean Joined: 03 Jan 2006 Posts: 79

Yea, but what's the point of yet another qualification level to get into university to get another meaninless degree? Once upon a time, a degree actually meant something. Just about every man and his dog has one these days. As a nation are we any smarter for it? I believe we have the best qualified dole queue in Europe; probably.

Not knocking education per se. Education is now a business and Thatcher started that. It's no longer a public service.

Try getting a plumber or maybe a joiner. Would you pay more for the service if he/she had a degree?

Pip · Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 7:15 pm Post subject:

There are too many muppet degrees and ex-polys dressed up as Unis, I'll grant you. However there still needs to be an exam course to prepare and select University candidates, and the new A-levels are bad at both. The old ones had their faults, in particular the way the best schools had cracked the formula and were manufacturing A grades, but they're still doing that with the new ones. I'd regard a switch to the IB as a good step at this point.

As for the lack of skilled craftsmen, yes you're absolutely right. There's never been anything to match the old apprenticeships, but industry in the UK's whithered a lot since those days. I don't know what it's like in Scotland but IMHO there's insufficient respect given to manual jobs, and esp skilled manual jobs in England.
_________________
Smile at us, pay us, pass us; but do not quite forget,
For we are the people of England, that never has spoken yet.

from The Secret People by G K Chesterton.

Shagpile · No Longer a Wean Joined: 03 Jan 2006 Posts: 79

I fully accept your point Pip, and I think we're not worlds apart on this. If I was clumsy in making my point, well it wouldn't be the first time!

If the degree is the 'holy grail' in the academic world, does it really matter what certificates you hold on your way to get one? After all they become superceeded by the degree.

I believe there are too many out there who hold a degree, void of education. And yes, not enough skilled tradesmen IMHO. To be fair to Joke McConnell though, he did start to address this before Liebour lost the last election.

Pip · Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 8:29 pm Post subject:

You're quite right that University isn't for everyone. But for those who do want to go, and are going to get something worthwhile out of it, there needs to be a set of dedicated entrance exams, that are specialist and prep students for their degrees. The current A-levels place too much emphasis on having an intrinsic value in themselves and are too broad in their focus.

Off topic, but I notice quite a bit of sympathy for McConnell in the Scottish part of cyberspace at the moment. Do we think he was just a third-rater in the wrong place at the wrong time? It's always struck me as odd how few of the Scottish Labour (and Lib-Dem) heavyweights are interested in actually governing Scotland.
_________________
Smile at us, pay us, pass us; but do not quite forget,
For we are the people of England, that never has spoken yet.

from The Secret People by G K Chesterton.

Aventinian

Aventinian · Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 11:49 pm Post subject:

Holebender · Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 10:33 am Post subject:

But, of course, that has nothing to do with the government being in charge of it eh?
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"My instinct is to agree with your opinion of his verse, but I've never so much as glanced at it." - agentmancuso

Aventinian · Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 1:03 pm Post subject:

Holebender · Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 4:37 pm Post subject:

So you are very much a supporter of centralising education in the hands of the UK government but you think the present system is a shambles and that has everything to do with the government being in charge of it. Are we to conclude that you are in favour of our education system being a shambles?
_________________
"My instinct is to agree with your opinion of his verse, but I've never so much as glanced at it." - agentmancuso

Aventinian · Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 11:53 pm Post subject:

Holebender · Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 5:23 pm Post subject:

Well, I'm glad you've cleared that up for us.
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"My instinct is to agree with your opinion of his verse, but I've never so much as glanced at it." - agentmancuso