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Red Justice
I Love 'Our Scotland'
Joined: 17 Jan 2008
Posts: 362
Location: Dun Deagh
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 Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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I am glad somebody gets back on the issue of Tibet I see Dave Coull is out to stir up trouble again about an issue that is all in the past. I better not take the bait and tell him to shut up or I might be accused by himself or his mate of making a threat. So I will leave it and hope that Dave grows up and sticks to the issue of Tibet. Not be the first time a thread has been locked because of his ramblings.
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RFM
'Our Scotland' = 2nd Job!
Joined: 09 Feb 2006
Posts: 486
Location: Chicago, Illinois
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| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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To Holebender,
I stand corrected. The English commander at Culloden was the Duke of Cumberland, Prince William Augustus.
Thank-you for pointing out out to me. |
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Red Justice
I Love 'Our Scotland'
Joined: 17 Jan 2008
Posts: 362
Location: Dun Deagh
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| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 9:22 am Post subject: |
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| Dave Coull wrote: | Holebender wrote "Still resorting to threats, 'Red'. "
Red Justice responds "No".
So "I am a Republican Socialist with mates pal like it or not......Be careful" doesn't sound just a wee bit like "watch it, pal"?
Holebender wrote
"Your friends have been telling you for quite some time that you need help; I think it's time you listened to them."
Red Justice asks
"who are friends who are telling me I need help?"
Donald told you so. Isn't he a friend?
Not a friend I tend to bypass history
Red Justice asks Holebender "Do you still like the police HB?"
I was not aware that Holebender had a particular affection for the police. However, I do know that he and you have a "history". Both of you were at one time members of Independence First. The question of your behaviour towards another fellow member, an English woman, was raised at an IF meeting. That meeting voted to suspend you from membership, pending consideration of your expulsion at the next meeting. Since you were not present, somebody had to write you a letter, informing you of this decision. Normally, the task of writing letters about collective decisions falls to the Secretary. However, the Secretary of IF was, quite frankly, scared of writing to you. She was afraid of being the bearer of bad news to you. Because the Secretary was scared to carry out her job, Holebender said that he would write to you. It is true that at the time the police had charged you with an offence of which you were later convicted. But Holebender was not "siding with the police", merely informing you of a collective decision taken on grounds of "bringing the campaign into disrepute".
I was convicted on the actions of a tout. I have never once in my life gone to the police over anyone. Those who support such actions are contemptable.
The charge resulted in a heavy fine that I have been struggling to pay due to poverty, meanwhile cowards have been hiding behind their computer keyboards and rub their hands in delight reflecting the class traitors that they are.
Think Mr Coull you should leave IF out of this thread it is no fault of mine or anyone else you and your friend threw the toys out the pram and left the organisation. Best Wishes to the progressive CPS and Eric Canning.
Red Justice tells Holebender "Think you are another like RJ that enjoys spreading false rumours".
Radge Jougal can be a pain. Holebender I have rather more time for. But none of what I have written here is false. And no, I don't enjoy the need to say it one little bit, but I think you were being unfair to Holebender. |
You do enjoy digging the dirt but what goes around comes around at least remember that.
Bring my personal life up again on this forum and I will blast your useless name all over the internet
On the subject of Tibet I would not support the formation of a religous state or join the hypocrites in supporting a Lama that is a US puppet, but support a democratic secular socialist society rather. If a free Tibet was to be socialist then perhaps they might get my support. I use more intelligence in my views than some misguided folks in Scotland.
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Dave Coull
Independentista
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 966
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| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 11:32 am Post subject: |
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Red Justice wrote "On the subject of Tibet I would not support the formation of a religous state or join the hypocrites in supporting a Lama that is a US puppet"
Neither would I. As Roger said in a comment on the anarchy list which I forwarded, "many make of him an icon of political resistance when he is no such thing. one can condemn the barbarity of the chinese occupation without supporting a buddhist theocracy as a replacement".
I disagree with Radge Jougal, but I also disagree with you telling him "I am a Republican Socialist with mates pal like it or not......Be careful". Holebender said he found that warning all too reminiscent of certain previous behaviour of yours. You can hardly complain about your so-called "personal" life being brought up when it was yourself who caused it to be brought up.
"I was convicted on the actions of a tout."
The poor woman was being harassed. Her husband and her children told her she had no option but to go to the police. As you very well know, calling somebody a "tout" in certain Republican circles can be an invitation for folk to take action against them. However, other folk do not share your view of her. On April 6th this year she attended the Scottish Republican Socialist Movement's celebration of the signing of the Declaration of Arbroath, and she was made very welcome in both the event itself and in the socialising in the pub afterwards.
Red Justice asked "who are friends who are telling me I need help?"
I responded "Donald told you so. Isn't he a friend?"
Red Justice now says "not a friend".
You told me yourself some time ago that you regarded Donald as a friend. As a friend, he gave you a good piece of friendly advice. You didn't like what he and others were telling you, so now you say they are not friends.
I repeat that it gives me no pleasure at all to have to mention these things. What has brought all this out was YOUR "warning" to Radge Jougal. THAT was uncalled for, and THAT is what has deflected discussion away from Tibet. |
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Red Justice
I Love 'Our Scotland'
Joined: 17 Jan 2008
Posts: 362
Location: Dun Deagh
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| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Dave Coull wrote: | Red Justice wrote "On the subject of Tibet I would not support the formation of a religous state or join the hypocrites in supporting a Lama that is a US puppet"
Neither would I. As Roger said in a comment on the anarchy list which I forwarded, "many make of him an icon of political resistance when he is no such thing. one can condemn the barbarity of the chinese occupation without supporting a buddhist theocracy as a replacement".
I disagree with Radge Jougal, but I also disagree with you telling him "I am a Republican Socialist with mates pal like it or not......Be careful". Holebender said he found that warning all too reminiscent of certain previous behaviour of yours. You can hardly complain about your so-called "personal" life being brought up when it was yourself who caused it to be brought up.
"I was convicted on the actions of a tout."
So I was like the truth or not!
The poor woman was being harassed. Her husband and her children told her she had no option but to go to the police. As you very well know, calling somebody a "tout" in certain Republican circles can be an invitation for folk to take action against them. However, other folk do not share your view of her. On April 6th this year she attended the Scottish Republican Socialist Movement's celebration of the signing of the Declaration of Arbroath, and she was made very welcome in both the event itself and in the socialising in the pub afterwards.
Not surprising the former republicans wanted me convicted and their leader was willing to collude with the police.
Red Justice asked "who are friends who are telling me I need help?"
I responded "Donald told you so. Isn't he a friend?"
Red Justice now says "not a friend".
You told me yourself some time ago that you regarded Donald as a friend. As a friend, he gave you a good piece of friendly advice. You didn't like what he and others were telling you, so now you say they are not friends.
Thee people do not speak for me they are not friends and never will be!
I repeat that it gives me no pleasure at all to have to mention these things. What has brought all this out was YOUR "warning" to Radge Jougal. THAT was uncalled for, and THAT is what has deflected discussion away from Tibet. |
Last comment by Dave Coull a bit confused!
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Red Justice
I Love 'Our Scotland'
Joined: 17 Jan 2008
Posts: 362
Location: Dun Deagh
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Abieuan
'Our Scotland' = 2nd Job!
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Posts: 480
Location: Carrick
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| Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | CELTIC LEAGUE - PRESS INFORMATION
TIBET PROTESTS - CHINA STAGE'S 'SHOW TRIALS'
The Celtic League has attacked 'show trials' in Tibet at which those
protesting for the right to self determination have suffered harsh
sentences.
Television new reports of the trials released by the Chinese regime
who are occupying Tibet portrayed scenes which were reminiscent of
Stalins show trials of the 1930s with the accused looking dazed and
intimidated. It was obvious that all had been ill treated.
In addition to those whose trials were publicly aired the Celtic League
understand that many protesters have been jailed away from the public
eye at proceedings closed to the media. It is highly likely that these
'secret trials' have been undertaken because of the nature of the
physical injury some of those detained have suffered.
It is vital that NGOs and governments globally continue to campaign
stridently for those detained to have access to independent medical
assessment by a reputable international body such as the RED CROSS. |
The bravery of some people is quite humbling. |
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RFM
'Our Scotland' = 2nd Job!
Joined: 09 Feb 2006
Posts: 486
Location: Chicago, Illinois
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 12:39 am Post subject: |
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| It is strange that these people apparently do not have the same sort of bravery for the people of Iraq, or Pakistan, or Zimbabve or Northern Ireland. |
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agentmancuso
Getting on a bit!
Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 1812
Location: Darkest Lanarkshire
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 8:58 am Post subject: |
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| RFM wrote: | | he English commander at Culloden was the Duke of Cumberland, Prince William Augustus. |
The Duke at Culloden was commander of the government forces, most of whom were Scots.
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Last edited by agentmancuso on Sun May 04, 2008 10:39 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Dave Coull
Independentista
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 966
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 10:00 am Post subject: |
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Agentmancuso wrote "The Duke of Culloden was commander of the government forces, most of whom were Scots".
Well, as I am the first to acknowledge, we can all make mistakes, and it looks like Agentmancuso has made a mistake here. So far as I am aware, there is no such title as "the Duke of Culloden", and there never was. While lords are often allowed to choose which title they want to be known by, nobody has ever chosen to be known as the Duke of Culloden. For the same reason as no regiment of the British army counts "Culloden" amongst their battle honours (although several could do so) - because nobody, not even on the winning side, counts it as a glorious victory.
The second part of Agentmancuso's statement is correct. Like the Jacobite army, the government forces included some English, but the majority were Scots, both highlanders and lowlanders. |
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agentmancuso
Getting on a bit!
Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 1812
Location: Darkest Lanarkshire
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 10:38 am Post subject: |
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| RFM wrote: | The Tibetans had an election on April 10 and the party that ran on a plank of close ties to China won in a virtual landslide. The party that ran on independence came last.
Where do you get off telling anybody that we need to pressure them to choose a government they obviously have rejected in an open, free and fair election? |
That might be more convincing if the people in China and Tibet had free and open access to information sources such as the internet. Or if Chinese socialists hadn't murdered something in the region of 50 million of their own people.
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Liberty does not mean all good things, or the absence of all evils
Hayek |
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agentmancuso
Getting on a bit!
Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 1812
Location: Darkest Lanarkshire
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 10:41 am Post subject: |
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| Dave Coull wrote: | | So far as I am aware, there is no such title as "the Duke of Culloden" |
Quite right Mr Coull, I've edited the original post.
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Hayek |
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agentmancuso
Getting on a bit!
Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 1812
Location: Darkest Lanarkshire
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 10:48 am Post subject: |
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| Red Justice wrote: | | I am a genuine Socialist |
You mean you genuinely believe in abusing the power of the state to force your opinions on the population, preventing freedom of movement and information, starving millions through ideological inflexibility, and murdering, torturing and imprisoning anyone who objects?
I'm not sure if being a genuine cheerleader for genocide is better or worse than being a replica part.
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Liberty does not mean all good things, or the absence of all evils
Hayek |
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RFM
'Our Scotland' = 2nd Job!
Joined: 09 Feb 2006
Posts: 486
Location: Chicago, Illinois
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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"using the power of the state to force your opinions on the population, preventing freedom of movement and information, starving millions through ideological inflexibility, torturing and imprisoning anyone who objects?"
That sounds like a fair description of the Bush administration. Also Maggie Thatcher's at one time. Different labels, same results. |
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Holebender
I need ma own bl**dy forum!
Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 1261
Location: Here or There
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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| agentmancuso wrote: | | Dave Coull wrote: | | So far as I am aware, there is no such title as "the Duke of Culloden" |
Quite right Mr Coull, I've edited the original post. |
Maybe so, but you haven't corrected your error.
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agentmancuso
Getting on a bit!
Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 1812
Location: Darkest Lanarkshire
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Holebender wrote: | | Maybe so, but you haven't corrected your error. |
Eh? How so?
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agentmancuso
Getting on a bit!
Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 1812
Location: Darkest Lanarkshire
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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| RFM wrote: | "using the power of the state to force your opinions on the population, preventing freedom of movement and information, starving millions through ideological inflexibility, torturing and imprisoning anyone who objects?"
That sounds like a fair description of the Bush administration. Also Maggie Thatcher's at one time. Different labels, same results. |
I can understand why people would object to Mrs Thatcher, but they were perfectly free to express their opinion at the ballot box. Same goes for Mr Bush. Your statement is evidently ridiculous.
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Hayek |
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Red Justice
I Love 'Our Scotland'
Joined: 17 Jan 2008
Posts: 362
Location: Dun Deagh
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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| agentmancuso wrote: | | Red Justice wrote: | | I am a genuine Socialist |
You mean you genuinely believe in abusing the power of the state to force your opinions on the population, preventing freedom of movement and information, starving millions through ideological inflexibility, and murdering, torturing and imprisoning anyone who objects?
I'm not sure if being a genuine cheerleader for genocide is better or worse than being a replica part. |
No I believe in the power of the state only where genuine socialism exists that allow workers to own the means of production create a socialist economy and closes down the avenues of the fat cats. I am against murder or torture methods as predominate in the Middle East, America and some Latin American countries. I do not agree that objectors should necessarily go to prison unless they commit acts of terrorism against a socialist state like unpatriotic Cuban Miami terrorists do. State propaganda should be about persuasion in socialism not cohersion. I do not support the Chinese model that is not my vision of socialism.
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agentmancuso
Getting on a bit!
Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 1812
Location: Darkest Lanarkshire
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Red Justice wrote: | | No I believe in the power of the state only where genuine socialism exists |
So it's fine to abuse the power of the state to obtain the ends you judge worthwhile, but not for any other purpose.
| Quote: | that allow workers to own the means of production create a socialist economy
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Has it escaped your attention that socialist economics have been abandoned by everyone who ever tried them?
| Quote: | | I am against murder or torture methods |
Yet you have a picture of a gun as your avatar?
| Quote: | | I do not agree that objectors should necessarily go to prison unless they commit acts of terrorism against a socialist state |
Like surfing the net? Or reading a book? Or wanting to leave the country? Or criticising the government? Or being a member of a political party or religious group?
| Quote: |
State propaganda should be about persuasion in socialism not cohersion. |
How come it never has then?
| Quote: | | I do not support the Chinese model that is not my vision of socialism. |
I am familiar with the paradigm, though normally it appears on this site as : I'm a Good Nationalist, all those other guys are Bad Nationalists.
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Liberty does not mean all good things, or the absence of all evils
Hayek |
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Red Justice
I Love 'Our Scotland'
Joined: 17 Jan 2008
Posts: 362
Location: Dun Deagh
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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Agent I said I believe in power of the state under socialism I never said I support abuse of power.
Socialist economies are taken up more now in Latin America
The gun in my Avatar provides a strong image sometimes necessary to get a point across with so many silly attitudes in capitalist society today in this country.
Have you been reading Orwell's Animal Farm eg: four legs good two legs bad 
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