Our Scotland - www.our-scotland.org

Reluctant Hero · Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 11:02 pm Post subject:

If this is true October, it is not going to help the Labour cause any. Shame!

What do you suspect the reason for the cold feet was? Internal polls indicating a hammering?

_________________
Visit the Our Scotland Blog at http://our-scotland.blogspot.com/

Reluctant Hero · Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 11:25 pm Post subject:

According to the Herald, it was "family reasons" Rolling Eyes

http://www.theherald.co.uk/politi...s_parties_launch_battle_plans.php

According to ASWAS though, it was something different Wink

http://adamsmithwasasocialist.blogspot.com/
_________________
Visit the Our Scotland Blog at http://our-scotland.blogspot.com/

Lochaber · Activist Joined: 15 Jan 2008 Posts: 100

Rinty · Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 6:52 am Post subject:

Chicmac: "Rinty, do you not accept that the far left leadership 'acceptance' of independence was in fact expedience as much as anything? A de facto acceptance that the concept itself was popular amongst their own base support?"

I wasn't a member of the left in Scotland at the time but I don't think it was as simple as that. There may have been an element of that among some supporters of the party after the idea was pushed, but those who argued the case, and won, were behind independence as a concept before their parties were. There was also a mass exodus of left-wingers from the SNP at the time who came into the left in Scotland. But I wouldnt say that we are the "far" left. Our ideas have become "far" left simply by virtue of the centre moving to the right.

William: "Think sometimes people from the west coast assume that once you get past Airdrie and Cumbernauld everybody wears a Barbour jacket and drives a Range Rover."

You could be right, but not me. I live in a semi-rural area and know most of the country well, and understand the poltiical make up of the country well as it is part of one of my jobs to do so.

"Personally think the big challenge for the SNP in this by election in demographic terms is more of a west coast Old Firm supporter thing (I'm thinking more but not exclusively Celtic) than something that applies right across Scotland. They've done OK in deprived areas before."

Not really William. There is a change in recent years as the sort of tribal element of labour supporting disappears. Where I live it has always been a simple equation of Labour=US Tories=them and the SNP and others had been ignored. A few miles away in Kilmarnock that is different. But Labour, until very recent times could weigh the votes in deprived areas. Now, inceasingly, Labour are seen as the cause of the deprivation as much as the tories and/or "bosses".

I think the celtic/rangers catholic/protestant thing does play more of a role in the east end of Glasgow in the past as we have seen more loyalist/tory alliances and way back there were even these sort of 'protestant' parties. This hasnt been helped by a large group of Labours councillors and constituency members coming from an irish/catholic background. That same scenario happens in most places in most countries, second generation immigrants usually attach themselves toLabour and pursue political careers within that party and Labour have been reasonably succesful in the past in persuading those groups that abour represent their interests. We see the same in Pakistani communities and Carribean communities in other cities.

But I think most of that has disappeared and Celtic supporters these days are more likely to be SNP supporters than before. The more Republican element (a minority) of the celtic support are mainly SNP supporters.

But I think the SNPs biggest problem will be a low turnout and voter apathy rather than any religious divide.

Red Justice · Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 9:27 am Post subject:

Rinty Wrote:
'I wasn't a member of the left in Scotland at the time but I don't think it was as simple as that. There may have been an element of that among some supporters of the party after the idea was pushed, but those who argued the case, and won, were behind independence as a concept before their parties were. There was also a mass exodus of left-wingers from the SNP at the time who came into the left in Scotland. But I wouldnt say that we are the "far" left. Our ideas have become "far" left simply by virtue of the centre moving to the right.'

Me myself I was not part of the days of the Scottish Socialist Alliance. I was a left wing socialist member of the SNP in the early 90s but the pro capitalist and pro European stance of the SNP just annoyed and radicalised me all the more. I let my SNP membership lapse for a year or two and after a year into SSP existence I joined the socialists in 1999. Like when in the SNP, after resigning from the SSP in 2006 it was a couple of years before joining a another party again.

I think also another factor for supporting independence is that the socialists and Scottish Left quite correctly changed with the times and the realisation that there won't be any British road to socialism.

As for the"far" left tag I agree with Rinty it is moreover those who have moved very far to the right.
_________________
“For socialists, independence is not about the colour or type of flag flying on our public buildings. It is about creating a better society. It is about putting people before profit"
Tommy Sheridan
http://scottishsocfree.blogspot.com

chicmac · Helping with the Count Joined: 18 Mar 2008 Posts: 395

chicmac · Helping with the Count Joined: 18 Mar 2008 Posts: 395

Interviewer: "Who have you always voted for in the past?"

Shettleston Man: " Labour!"

Interviewer: "Are you aware that for every measure of quality of life and deprivation in the known Universe, that this area now comes at the bottom of the list?"

Shettleston Man: "Aye!"

Interviewer: "So who will you vote for in this By-election?"

Shettleston Man: "Labour!" Crying or Very sad

Cruachan · Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 2:24 pm Post subject: Cllr John Mason for Glasgow East

So, what are views on the selection of John Mason.

Is he the man of destiny? Seems a good choice to me.
_________________
IT'S TIME.
http://loosechange-cruachan.blogspot.com/

Aventinian · Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 2:29 pm Post subject:

Reluctant Hero · Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 2:43 pm Post subject:

Labour must be getting desperate. BT is saying that Margaret Curran is going to stand.

What will happen then? Will she resign from being an MSP? Will she still contend the Labour leadership?

What a mess!!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/briantaylor/
_________________
Visit the Our Scotland Blog at http://our-scotland.blogspot.com/

Cruachan · Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 3:02 pm Post subject:

chicmac · Helping with the Count Joined: 18 Mar 2008 Posts: 395

George · This is Ma' Life! Joined: 02 May 2006 Posts: 767

Things aren't looking good for Darling this week either.

The National Audit Office are refusing to sign off the Treasury accounts this year.........they were missing from the annual report this week, the first time this has ever happened.

The reason for this is the treatment of Northern Rock liabilities on the national balance sheet, i.e. dodgy accounting. Darling of course is also expected to announce yet another 'U' turn by rescinding the planned increase on fuel duty.

On another note; I happened to look at The Daily Record today and was appaled at what can only be described as complete fabrication on their part.

They have an article containing the following:

Cruachan · Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 5:16 pm Post subject: It's Curran

Labour MSP Margaret Curran has announced she will stand as a candidate for the Glasgow East by-election after the frontrunner dropped out.
_________________
IT'S TIME.
http://loosechange-cruachan.blogspot.com/

Cruachan · Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 5:26 pm Post subject: Two Curran's for the price of one

With Frances (SSP) and now Margaret (SLP) it will be an interesting challenge for the voters and campaigners to distinguish the two Curran candidates (other than policies of course!)

Is this a desperate bid by the Labour Party to capture unintentional votes from SSP supporters? We should be told.
_________________
IT'S TIME.
http://loosechange-cruachan.blogspot.com/

Rinty · Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 6:14 pm Post subject:

This is a mistake for Labour and a no win scenario.

If labour win it will mean a by-election in Bailliestion where John Mason outpolled the Labour councillors 2-1 last year. If Labour lose then one of their big guns cant beat a local candidate.

Red Justice · Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 8:22 pm Post subject:

Labour will put forward another Yes man or Yes woman, look at Marshall's voting record in the Commons a great deal more bad than good.

How David Marshall voted on key issues since 2001:

Voted very strongly against a transparent Parliament.
Voted very strongly for introducing a smoking ban.
Voted strongly for introducing ID cards.
Voted very strongly for introducing foundation hospitals.
Voted strongly for introducing student top-up fees.
Voted very strongly for Labour's anti-terrorism laws.
Voted a mixture of for and against the Iraq war.
Voted very strongly against an investigation into the Iraq war.
Voted very strongly against replacing Trident. votes.
Voted very strongly for the hunting ban. votes, speeches
Voted a mixture of for and against equal gay rights. votes, speeches.

Little will change for the area by voting in another pro capitalist mainstream party.

All the best for Solidarity's Tricia.

Tricia McLeish the Solidarity candidate should pull a deserved significant share of votes being a local woman to the area in Shettleston.
_________________
“For socialists, independence is not about the colour or type of flag flying on our public buildings. It is about creating a better society. It is about putting people before profit"
Tommy Sheridan
http://scottishsocfree.blogspot.com

shamefulsocialistpowermad · Finding Ma' Way Joined: 06 Jul 2008 Posts: 8

shamefulsocialistpowermad · Finding Ma' Way Joined: 06 Jul 2008 Posts: 8

shamefulsocialistpowermad · Finding Ma' Way Joined: 06 Jul 2008 Posts: 8