Our Scotland - www.our-scotland.org

RadgeJougal · Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 2:32 pm Post subject:

"If confirmed, the vote would erase the last vestige of the former Yugoslavia."

No it wouldn't. There is a Hungarian region in the north of Serbia.

Neil · Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 2:57 pm Post subject:

It is an area with a hungarian minority but a sizeable Serb majority. The Hungarians there have shown no interest in irredentism. Indeed the tennis player Monica Selous who is part of that minority publicly asserte her patriotism so openly that while playing in Germany a Croatian attempted to murder her put her in hospital for many months.

The German government showed their wishes by sentencing the would be assassin to 3 months.
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The aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.
H. L. Mencken

kalashnikov · No Longer a Wean Joined: 17 Sep 2005 Posts: 93

http://www.marxist.com/montenegro-capitalist-inferno030706.htm

Good article on the situation
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If you remove the English army to-morrow and hoist the green flag over Dublin Castle, unless you set about the organisation of the Socialist Republic your efforts would be in vain. - James Connolly

Neil · Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 2:31 pm Post subject:

Very good article. As a Marxist publication they don't like Milosevic's reformism but that is ok. The point about most Moslems being perfectly happy as part of Yugoslavia is well made.

Watch tonight's news to see if there is any mention of the release of Naser Oric the perpetrater of the real genocide at Srebrenica. I will bet heavily that the BBC/ITN Nazis won't report it.
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The aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.
H. L. Mencken

LAz · Nationalist Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 113

I am from this region and I have to say that this is completely ridiculous.

Montenegrins are Serbs and they always will be Serbs.

Heck, the only reason why their referendum barely passed was because of fraud.

Here...

Neil · Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 1:06 pm Post subject:

Yugoslavia was a multi-ethnic country before we destroyed it. Now the only multi-ethnic area is Serbia - the rest being western controlled mini-states run by (ex-)Nazis.

A triumph for the new world order.
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The aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.
H. L. Mencken

Montenegro · Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 3:11 pm Post subject:

Montenegro · Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 3:29 pm Post subject:

Neil · Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 4:20 pm Post subject:

If as you imply you DO hate Serbs & Orthodox then I very much doubt if you are Montenegrin (though it is conceivable you are an Albanian immigrant there). The general Montenegrin attitude was that they were tougher, more Orthodox, more Serbian & more likely to steal sheep than the Serbs (pretty much like the Highland Jacobite clans attitude to supporting the House of Stewart).

The Montenegran king went over the the German side in WW1 so his treatment is no more proof of the Serbs forcing Montenegro into Yugolsavia than the imprisonment of Petain is proof that the French didn't want the Allied Liberation in WW2.
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The aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.
H. L. Mencken

Montenegro · Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 4:48 pm Post subject:

Montenegro · Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 5:02 pm Post subject:

Neil · Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 5:06 pm Post subject:

Montenegro · Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 5:24 pm Post subject:

Dave Coull · Independentista Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 1266

Without in any way endorsing what the poster "Montenegro" says (there are some things he says with which I would definitely disagree), I see no reason to dispute that he is telling the truth as he sees it.

"Montenegro" wrote "I am not Albanian and I cant give you better proof for this than my full name: Petar Milikić, and I am from Vasojević clan from Lijeva Rijeka, near Kolašin".

Full name, family connections, the name of a village, and of the larger town which it is near. That is quite a lot of personal detail for anybody to put on a public site. In fact, I can think of only one other person who has given as much personal detail as this, here on this Our Scotland forum, and that was me.

Despite that, Neil wrote "I'm afraid I do not think you are what you claim to be".

You make a habit of questioning the truthfulness of those who have the sheer effrontery to express any disagreement with you. I don't know a lot about Montenegro, but there are other folk on here (including yourself) who claim to know more. Petar Milikić's statements that he is not Albanian, not Muslim, that he is of the same Orthodox Christian religion as the Serbs, and that he is from the Vasojević clan, from Lijeva Rijeka, near Kolašin, in Montenegro, these could all be checked out. Until such time as you check this out, or somebody else checks it out, and come up with some actual evidence that there is anything untruthful about it, Petar's claim is at least as believable as your own claim that you are Neil from Glasgow.

Montenegro · Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:01 pm Post subject:

Neil · Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:11 pm Post subject:

Montenegro · Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:13 pm Post subject:

Neil · Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:12 am Post subject:

Dave Coull · Independentista Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 1266

Montenegro/Petar wrote "After all, I did not come here to argue wheter Montenegrins are Serbs or not.......I came here to learn little more about Scotland and its fight for independence".

Some Scots are in favour of independence, some are not. Nearly all of us who are in favour of independence think it can be achieved without violence.

"This division between Serbs and Montenegrins is political. You have brothers from same mother and father who has different ethnicity. There are many such examples. Those who were in favor of independence tend to call themself Montenegrins, and those who were against call Serbs, althought there is no real difference."

You can find the same thing here in Scotland, members of the same family who identify differently. However, in one way it is more complicated. Instead of a clear division, there is a gradual range of identity, and it does not always follow clear political lines.

Many people in Scotland say that they are both Scottish and British. Most of them say that they feel more Scottish than British, but still, a little bit British. A minority of people identify themselves as Scottish and not British at all, and another minority identify themselves as British and not Scottish.

You can get brothers from the same family with one saying he is Scottish, and another saying he is both Scottish and British. However, you are not likely to get, within the same family, a brother who says he is Scottish and not British at all, and another brother who says he is British and not Scottish at all.

The vast majority of people in Scotland do identify as Scots, although some of them also identify as British. Since the vast majority of people in Scotland do identify as Scots, even those in a minority are willing to accept decisions made by the Scottish people as a whole. If we have a referendum on independence, the great majority of those on the "losing" side in that referendum will accept the decision of the Scots as a whole.

Although there are some similarities between Montenegro and Scotland, I think there are many differences.

The clan system which was at one time important in Scotland (although not necessarily in every part of Scotland) is nowadays largely sentimentality for tourists rather than a daily reality for ordinary people. The clan system was already starting to die out long before the defeat of the Jacobite rebellion of 1745, and clan chiefs became integrated into the British ruling class, evicting their own clans folk for profit, and sending their sons to British ruling class schools, pretty much finished it off.

I suspect from what you say that a clan system remains more important in the Montenegrin highlands than it is in the Scottish highlands.

One very important difference is that the border between Scotland and England was settled long ago, and, despite these countries being joined together as the United Kingdom, it has continued all along as a real boundary, with people on both sides of it recognising it as such. I think the boundaries between Montenegro and Serbia, between Montenegro and Bosnia, between Montenegro and Albania, between Montenegro and the new state of Kosovo, may be less clearly "settled" than the boundary between Scotland and England.

Another very significant difference is that we have only one land boundary, that with England. Although, at present, Northern Ireland and Scotland are both parts of the British state, they are clearly distinct. There are people in the north east of Ireland who identify themselves with Scotland, and there are people in Scotland who identify themselves with Ireland, but the sixteen miles of sea which separate Scotland from Northern Ireland mean that no supporter of an independent Scotland has ever suggested a Scottish claim to any part of Ireland, and no supporter of Irish independence has ever suggested an Irish claim to any part of Scotland.

Also, although there are plenty of people who want Scotland to remain in political Union with England, nobody suggests that Scotland, or any part of it, should become part of England.

In my opinion, the people of the Borders area of Scotland will vote much the same way as the rest of Scotland, when we have our referendum. And those who are in the minority in that referendum will accept the decision of the Scottish people as a whole.